Friday, December 9, 2011

Of Black Pride and White Prejudice: James Earl Jones Discusses His "Racist" Black Grandmother

Your shuttle is ready Lord Vader.

We have not had a salon on black prejudice and white racism in a while; I save those occasions for special moments; it would seem that we have one now.

In this interview on the BBC, Brother James Earl Jones describes his grandmother as the most racist person he has ever met. She was part Native American and black. As Jones describes it, his grandmother was a "defensive racist."

Racism is the particular crime, of a particular group of people, who happen to have power. Racism is not existential. Racism has nothing to do with skin color. Racism has everything to do with skin color.

To maintain, continue with, circulate, and support racist practices is an active choice, and also one of tacit consent. Thus, while James Earl Jones' First World, indigenous, black grandmother, may have been bigoted or prejudiced, she was in no way racist--for racism is a particular and unique sin of white people, whatever their class or social location, in modernity and beyond. Her pain and anger, were also totally understandable, reasonable, and just.

Brother Jones' reflection on his own upbringing is also a bit of powerful sharing. His grandmother was "racist" against blacks who to her eyes "enabled" slavery, and "let themselves be taken." She is also upset at her own Native American kin for their own Holocaust. These feelings are examples of the deep pain, angst, and sadness, as well as loss, that racism perpetrates as a crime on its victims.

How powerful a social force it is, when a people internalize and reproduce the terms of their own oppression, like some type of Stockholm Syndrome...

James Earl Jones' sharing of his grandma's upsetness at her own people is also an example of pulling aside the veil, and making public, our own private talk as first world, black and brown people, about our racialized predicament in the Americas (and throughout European empire, more broadly).

By implication, what follows is an uncomfortable question for some.

As you know, I always take it to the limit: If "we" were so "great," how could "they" conquer the world? Put us in chains? Steal our lands? Kill us by the tens and hundreds of millions? How did Europe, a resource and population poor part of the world, a group of people who were quite literally "cave dwellers," conquer the great empires of Latin and South America, as well as sub-Saharan Africa?

We brought knowledge to the world, and preserved its greatest mysteries when white Europeans were living like animals during the Dark Ages, so how could black folks be put under the chain and lash in the bowels of the hellish slavers during the Middle Passage? How is this even imaginable, or within the boundaries of the conceivable?

And please, do not run to the claim that Europeans were "evil." Such arguments are lazy thinking, difficult to operationalize, and do us no service in the long run. They also keep us safe from hard answers, for such existential and ontological defenses are difficult, if not impossible, to rebuff or model in practice. Such claims are comforting; yet, they teach us very little.

As frequents readers of WARN know, I have shared more than a few beers with Neo-Nazis and Klan members over the years and debated these matters. I have an answer to the riddle. In the interest of sharing and learning, I ask what is yours?

That weapon is a powerful and necessary derringer, to keep up your sleeve or in your shirt pocket. Show it off a little. Consider this your Friday riddle of steel.


The Honourable Husband said...

While the two are not directly comparable, I do read about these issues as a gay man, who has his own lump of internalised homophobia.

What intrigued me about this passage from Jones' interview, was the moment when he said, "sometimes, I let myself feel it [racism] just for the hell of it."

I've done that. Hated people with whom I shared a life, a cause, a struggle. I mocked sissies. I scorned those who took the passive role. I sneered at those whom I though let their sexuality take over every aspect of their lives. I rolled my eyes at drag shows.

It was easy. It felt good. But the pain afterward is profound and relentless.

Once hate is installed, it's difficult to rip out the plumbing.

For me, asking the hater who hated him so much, that he can carry so much hate in his bones, often does the trick.

Plane Ideas said...

I thought JEJ's interview was full of shit and a part of it offended me..I tired quickly of Black folks especially celebs who give those "let me tell your secret about black folks interviews" all it does is provide ammo for some equivalence justification for racism to continue..

Truth is these types of interviews are selfish and only makes Jones and others noble while the field niggers in the streets fighting for respect remain angry Black folks etc..they also become barriers to disarming racism but deflecting it back on the victims is a twisted so called noble fashion reminds me of corporate and criminal legal defense s which seek to demonize the victime to mitigate the damages etc.

Jone's also slights his granny but believing she was a racist it is obvious at his age he could not decode the cultural parenting she was providing him..Many Black parents also do this by not revealing the full spectrum of the hate about racism in some questionable belief it will disable their kids..

With regard to CD's question( nuance answers require more space)..I am going to wait before I render a view..I will note these types of questions are academic and esoteric and does not impact one life of a person demonize by universe of white any event I will wait before I post my offical comments..

Ms. Bunny Easter said...

I'm not buying James Earl Jones narrative that Granny hated blacks because they allowed themselves to be enslaved. Oh I think she hated blacks alright. But it had nothing to do with that. Most likely Granny Jones was a light-skinned woman. Since we lacked power to practice real racism on the dominate culture, we resorted to practicing the evil among ourselves. In her time, and it's true today, Granny and her family were epitomized and lionized in the black community for their light-skin. And, I'm sure they loved every ounce of privilege and prestige those dark skinned Negroes bestowed on them.

This leads me to the conclusion Granny Jones didn't hate black people because they were slaves. She hated them because they were a reminder- that she wasn't white. In others words, in spite of blacks fawning over her light skin, and their constant reinforcement that she was better than them, whites refused to acknowledge her whiteness.

As I looked at James Earl Jones Wikipedia page, I was not surprised to see him described as a member of various ethnic groups. This is typical of African Americans who try to diminish their African roots. They constantly desire preferential treatment. And they continue to get it from ignorant African Americans. The very people that folks like Jones, run away from.

Frankly, I'm sick of these people and the mentally ill Negroes that created them.

chaunceydevega said...

@honor. that is some powerful sharing. we do carry so much baggage; sadly, we often direct it at our own.

@thrasher. you are right. there is a good, noble, we are all racists equally vibe to his interview. everyone's hands are equally dirty, you didn't know that?

@miss ann. I hope old lord vader didn't hear you calling his people out! he may try to use a force choke on you to silence your truth telling!

Anonymous said...

Garbage - if JEJ's grannie hated white people, it was justified because of th time they were living in. People like his grannie -Blac people - were hated, discriminated against, cut out of jobs, killed daily, ridiculed to no end, had to suffer under Jim Crow laws that the REAL racists made due to their hatred of Blacks, and in her time, were not even considered human per the Constitution. JEJ should be ashamed for slandering his own grandmother to gain favor with whites, and white women - the groups that truly proved to be the most racist.

Brotha Wolf said...

If this adds anything to the conversation, I've written a few posts about intraracism. They came from my POV, and they are only thoughts and theories.

JEJ's grandmother's experience, if it was true, is not unusual, and further disdain will not help anything. White racism in this country has been so powerful that some of us have been programmed with the same negative thinking about our people. It's frustrating, but I honestly see no other cause for this kind of mentality. I have even worse luck finding solutions.

To answer the question I can only say this: Just because our peoples were dominated by those "cave dwellers" doesn't mean the "cave dwellers" were superior, nor were they better in a moral, intellectual sense. If the white Europeans were moral and intelligent, they wouldn't have committed those atrocities in astronomical proportions. Their descendants wouldn't try to glorify it or "humanize" it. They wouldn't deny what they did was wrong. They wouldn't tell us to get over it. They would make amends and fix their screw ups. As a whole, that has yet to happen.

This is not to say that whites and Europeans are evil, but they are so deep they are trapped in their own mentality.

But I'm just sayin.

Brotha Wolf said...

Also, I know my answer to the question may sound crass or corny, but it's just a thought.

chaunceydevega said...

@Anon. I tend to agree. I marvel at our capacity to forgive as a people. It is a blessing and a curse. I also say that about other folks who have suffered under the boot and still live in the same society with those who treated them so badly for so long.

@Brotha. As long as it is from the heart. You know we don't have many rules here at WARN. Just be real as you always are.

Plane Ideas said...

Wonderful and illuminating comments...WARN is truly the best Black site on the planet..

Bro Wolf.Bringing It
Anon..Feeling ya
CD..You never know what to expect do ya

Anonymous said...

It is difficult not to wonder how we were allowed to be enslaved when the enslavers seem no more special than we are. It is even more so difficult to understand how we seem to be unable see that the same tactic that were used to enslave us then is still being employed to marginilized us now. I could be wrong but, in my estimation there is some truth to the idea that we were warring civilizations upon the arrival of Europeans. Both Africans and native Idians regularly warred with each other for whatever reason. What better way to gain advantage than to insert yourself among the different factions then work as a single force to erode each side? Much the way our politics of today are bieng played out. Playing ally or savior to one while helping them destroy the other then working in reverse once the one goal is achieved. I suppose the anger comes from the seeming inability to see what was happening while it was happening until it was too late to do anything about it. That coupled with advanced weaponry and foreign germs (which it seems was more luck than strategy), made short work out of gaining the upper hand. The difference between then and now is that now, we know the tactics, we know the tools and yet, we still allow ourselves to be divided.

Anonymous said...

@Ms.Ann, I suppose perception is everything. As a light skinned female, I can say that I felt anything but lionized by the African American community I grew up in. I was constantly told by darker cousins that I was not part of the family, that I was adopted or found in the trash. I cannot count how many times I have had to fight because I for whatever reason "thought I was cute" . No life was not a bowl of cherries. On the flip side, I have felt that a few more doors may have been open to lighter blacks, as is so apparent in Hollywood. But, I am not in Hoolywood, nor is a lot of lighter blacks who are often left wondering which side they fit. Seems we have it coming from both sides. Not white enough to be white and not "black" enough to be black. Given the numbers concerning African Americans, employment and income inequality, being light skinned is not so much a priveledge either.

Anonymous said...

"As you know, I always take it to the limit: If "we" were so "great," how could "they" conquer the world? Put us in chains? Steal our lands? Kill us by the tens and hundreds of millions? How did Europe, a resource and population poor part of the world, a group of people who were quite literally "cave dwellers," conquer the great empires of Latin and South America, as well as sub-Saharan Africa?"

Better weapons?

Shady_Grady said...

Greater technology and a more ruthless style of warfare. In "Breakfast of Champions" Kurt Vonnegut Jr. wrote :

"..they had the best boats in the world, and they were meaner than anybody else and they had gunpowder...The chief weapon of the sea pirates, however was their capacity to astonish. Nobody else could believe,until it was much too late, how heartless and greedy they were."

Jim in St Louis said...

I think Mr Shady is on to something with the technology angle. European advances in navigation and exploration brought them into contact with Africa and with the New World. The Spanish tried to make slaves out of the native americans who just lay down and died when pushed into forced labor. Africans however were more hardy and the crossing took out the weak.

The Riddle is a toughie, but I think the technology angle is the right direction.

Plane Ideas said...

I opine it has nothing to do with technology but soley a result of the reality of a empire melting down under it's weight..i.e USA

Chicago Joe said...

As a white man who is always intersted in black stuff I really had to question myself when the whole Ginger White /Herman Cain stuff broke. I wondered "is this what happens when you elect a black guy president". Then I realized that may be racist to think that way. Then I wondered why do I care so much. Why am I so into black stuff, into black women, music etc. My friends call me the Thicke as in Robin thicke who sings black and loves black(Paula Patton is his wife and she is the hottest woman on the planet black or white) Then I started examining my history. I know I my mother's family comes from North Carolina. My mother and all her relatatives are dark for white people. Real dark hair, eyes, wide noses they are little whiter in skin color than Ginger White but they have such full features. Every so often a red head pops out from one of the cousins who has a baby and then there is curly kinky hair on what should be a black person. I asked mom what is up recently she had always said it was North Carolina Cherokee that made us dark(I am blonde and blue eyed but have real full features and wavy hair) finally she admitted that her great great grandmother was black.
So it is really the whites running around who have that one drop that are the most racist not other blacks because those with now white skin have political power and advantage and white priveledge that blacks in the race know matter how "racist"they may seem will never have.Stop hating each other, stop outdoing each other trust me you have real enemies on the other side with white skin who hate what else is in them. (my family is very racist) you have real whites with no black blood who would like to see you all put on ships to some where or taken out completely here . Try to stick togther, try to be unified, its the only way you will get obama another four years. There are so many real white racists watching you hate and destroy each waiting for the time to strike. Try to get through this with as much dignity to one another as possible. As for me I live in Chicago where being anything is okay. I think there are more truly white skinned (I mean really white skinned not light skinned ) people with black Dna than you black folks realize. I read that CIndy Crawford was black and Elvis had black blood. I think these are the new kind of "black folks" you should really be analyzing. The key lies with them.

Oh Crap said...

I read that CIndy Crawford was black and Elvis had black blood. I think these are the new kind of "black folks" you should really be analyzing. The key lies with them.

No they aren't, and no it doesn't. There is no such thing as "black blood".

"One-dropper" types are as old as one-drop, itself. Every Black family, nuclear and extended, has been dealing with this issue from jump; it's only new to whites who have been told for generations that their perceptions of the world are the default perceptions, all while being utterly oblivious to the world around them.

You guys need to start studying the flimsiness of "white people's" most prized social category color, especially the pathologies and unearned privileges that come from non-western Europeans, Asians, Pacific Islanders, Middle Easterners, and Latinos trying to hammer and saw themselves into that category in exchange for said priv's. All those social anxieties about dark skin and hair, eye color, nose shape, last name, will never be resolved until you do.

Skeptical Sister said...

What I think is the real issue here is is the attack on the light skinned black women. First all the attention to the ignorant undereducated woman who sources say has gone a white for all these years until she got paid to undo Herman Cain Ms. GInger White and now earl jones ole'granny. Who cares or gives a damn. Let me remind you of some light skinned black women Rosa Parks, Daisy Bates, Angela Davis, Mrs. Booker mother of Corey Booker mayor of Newark, Jesse Jackson's mama, Mother Henritte Dellile(google her you might learn something), Soledad Obrien, Debra Lee(BET), Camille Hanks Cosby(activist), Johnetta Cole (activist), Pearl Cleage( google her you will really question the one drop rule when you see this sister yes she is black),Debbie Allen Ayers(Dancer, activist), Beverly Daniel Tatum(Spellman google her too you still might learn something) and so many more. Do you really mean that the era of Obama means attacking women that look like these women?The elite of the world can tell the difference in folks but the average american can not is this reallly how to get Obama reelected or is this website really secretly a tool of the right? Whats up here. What about jet black sisters who mumble under their breath half breed, too light, I hate her?? There are plenty of black racists who are so black they are blue. Do you really want to off put women like these who have power, are married to men of power , raise increadible amounts of money for great causes including the Democrats and Obama? What is up with not supporting or having an essay supporting the hard work of black women who might be of mixed race who have stayed in the race when they did not have too as all the speculation over Ginger White proved and are still fighting the good fight. Do your white left wing friends on this blog find them threatening or are they just marrying them up and moving them to another category ie white. Think about. This is the wrong time to offend anyone.

Oh Crap said...

@Skeptical Sister

What I think is the real issue here is is the attack on the light skinned black women.

Lol oh brother. There hasn't been any "attack". Yeah, somebody suggested JEJ's mother is "lightskinned". Well, look at him. Somebody in his background is "lightskinned".


As for your post, first you say:

What about jet black sisters who mumble under their breath half breed, too light, I hate her?? There are plenty of black racists who are so black they are blue.

Uh-huh. So "so black they are blue" is a negative in your book, evidently.

Then you say,

This is the wrong time to offend anyone.

Is it? Or do you mean, don't say anything that might offend you, or else.

As I've said in a few posts around here, these issues are not new. Every Black family deals with them....every single one. Including 1st generation African-immigrant families.

We have been "mixed" since we've been on this continent, which by my count is somewhere around 500 years. So join the club of who is "mixed", which is basically all African Americans.

It is long past time for self-identified "I'm mixed" GenX and GenY types to move beyond their own personal world of hurt to discover we've all got one.

Plane Ideas said...

OH Crap...

Thank You..Thank You..Thank You...The chicago joe was full of shit and skeptical sister is out of her element and just was shallow as chicago joe..


chaunceydevega said...

@Skeptical. What on Earth on you talking about? Do you have some type of tragic mulatta thing going on?

Aadonis219 said...

To answer the riddle I think a simple solution is usually best. Location.

Europeans just so happened to exist where such a unique geography cultivated a warring/über competitive environment. What is also noteworthy is the climate as Europe like N.America has many deciduous plants which allowed Europeans to stock pile food resources thus allocating their time and attention elsewhere. Largely African societies were more preoccupied with survival within the geography whereas European geography was influential to the psyche/perspective of Europeans. Living in such close proximity one tribe to another led/bred Europeans to be war-like and "explorers" thus forcing them to use the materials/goods/intellect necessary to do said tasks. Africa lacks the passive Danube/Rhine rivers that allowed Europeans the luxury of learning how to build boats/ships etc. The smaller land mass and topography of Europe produced a territorial society in contrast to Africa being the second largest continent on the planet that gave Africans much more options as an alternative to simply being territorial. Think Tigers vs. Lions. Lions exist in prides in which only the fittest survive/reproduce and tigers having much more open space to live do not require the use of "lion pride" tactics as they have much easier prey to capture. Last but not least is disease. Non-Europeans had not the immunity to the various diseases that Europeans were constantly exposed to.Typhoid Mary anyone?

nomad said...

"If "we" were so "great," how could "they" conquer the world? Put us in chains? Steal our lands? Kill us by the tens and hundreds of millions?"

It didn't happen overnight. A couple of intermediate events led to that development. The fall of Africa's Mediterranean neighbor, Rome. The conquest of north Africa by the Muslims. And the natural decline of empires. Hell, "we" ruled for 3000 years or more. Did you think those African empires were going to last forever?

But, as always, I have my own fortean suspicions. An important clue to the decline of African empires lies in the Sahara Dessert.

CNu said...

But, as always, I have my own fortean suspicions. An important clue to the decline of African empires lies in the Sahara Dessert.

Tell me more about pre-sands Egypt brah - and furnish a link or two to more of this information?

nomad said...

The Sahara used to be green before they blew it up. Just my opinion, of course -the blowing up part. It's the old ancient astronaut theory. I forget the guy's name -Kurt something or other. Look up Saharan rock art. And do check out some of the weird images. Waita minute -google,google- Erich Von Daniken: you know, Chariots of the Gods.

nomad said...

Oops. My bad. My chronology is all wrong. These guys were before the rise of the black empires. The beginning. Not the end. Forget I mentioned them.

chaunceydevega said...

@Nomad. "And the natural decline of empires. Hell, "we" ruled for 3000 years or more"

rule what? we were sitting in trees and swinging on vines waiting to be discovered! where you been hiding. we know that is b.s. you would be surprised how many still believe in the "European Miracle."

I always laugh when I tell students that Europe was a backwards part of the world full of cave dwellers, and that China, Persia, and several sub-saharan African kingdoms dominated the world far longer than their ancestors have been at the top.

You should see the upsetness.

nomad said...

Far as I know Africa was the first. Even before Egypt, another brownish black empire. Check out them black "Amazon" archers in the Saharan rock paintings. Them was some ba-ad sisters.

Oh Crap said...

Spice Trade, Silk Road, friends. I think they ended up the way they are because their food tasted like crap, even as Ethiopia and India had been tradin' chilis and saffron for millenia, prior.

Then again that's not really true. Nothing like a good brat and a beer.

CNu said...


Those exobios are a complete and utter fraud. There are no exobios involved in that way in human affairs. (now the sudden appearance of fungi several hundred million years ago - may be a whole other matter)

Anyway, "the fallen ones", the "enemies of the gods", giants, "m(w)t - Anakim/Nephilim in Hebrew - were exiles to the west from out of Egypt. Nothing more, but given the relative scarcity of high-culture, they were to the goatherds surrounding the colonies (Canaan) - like gods by comparison.

There was pre-sands high civilization, but it was human high civilization not yet broadly proliferated out of its pre-historic cradle.

Anonymous said...

As a white man married to a beautiful black woman I am proud to say I have prodcued four beautiful black daughters but here's the rub --- they have been the victims of Racism by darker skinned blacks alll their lives. I was so excited to meet my black wife and marry her. We planned to raise our kids as black. We went to all the cultural festivals in town and even celebrated Kwanza instead of Christmas. I found myself leaving as much as my irish german catholic upbringing behind as I tried to make sure my wifes black culture was upheld. As soon as the girls got into school the name callinng began- "you look white, you talk white, etc. " Soon we found ourselves moving the girls to private school. Their grades shot up but they found themselves with mostly upper middle class and rich white friends. When the dating began my girls would come home reporting how the black boys were saying "You will make pretty babies someday'there was also constant pressure to have sex. My girls were being treated like sexual objects by there own race. I was angry. I had always wanted them to find black men to marry. In any case moving to current times my daughter just finished Dartmouth recently. She told us on one trip home she had found the man she was going to marry. When we went up there to meet him not only did I discover that he was White but English at that. He asked me for "her hand" which was very touching to me as a dad. I suppose as an academic I am still a romantic. I took out that time to ask him why my daughter. He said she was increadibly beautiful inside and out but then he went on to name the qualities any man would want in a wife, elegant, carried herself well, educated, frugal with spending and an increadible cook. I credit that to my wife's mother from South Carolina teaching the girls Low Country Cooking when we would go down there in early summers. He loves and values her as a human not a sexual object. He does not have the hatred I see in so many of her own race mostly darker skinned. The wedding is this weekend my wife sits at our other home computer as I write this putting finishing touches on things. His parents arrive from England in two days. We all plan to be in London for the Olympics guests at our new inlaws home. My beautiful mixed race daughter has done me a man born of immigrant irish and german parents the first n his family to get a degree and graduate degree- real proud. I only wish memebers of the black race could value there own. Maybe the next daughter will find a good black guy but I don't have my hopes up.I agree that the worst racism is in the race but I see it both ways I see dark skinned blacks as just as cruel , angry and vengeful as others. When my daughter moves to France with her husband (he has accepted a position there) I hope they will find a more balanced society.

nomad said...

That ain't the way I read it. The "exobios" likely have been involved in human affairs from the beginning. The migration was in the opposite direction, from a devastated once green Sahara, west to Egypt and south to the subcontinent.

nomad said...

I mean "east to Egypt and south to the subcontinent."

CNu said...

That ain't the way I read it.

yeah.., I understand. it's kind of like having to part ways with Santa Claus - but like other constructions of the id - the burden of proof is on the proponents of exobio mythology.

These humans have been on the planet for a very, very long time. Genetic bottle-neck of fewer than 50 individuals just 75,000 years ago. How long were they around before that near Great Filter? Time enough to rise and fall, rise and fall, and damn near extinguish yourselves many times over.

Hell, you're guaranteed to do it to yourselves once again within my lifetime!

It always tickles me to peel the layers of the ghetto nerd onion, only to find a child of the 70's, none too far removed from the children of the 50's, and all-a-y'all celebrating the monsters of the id, carefully crafted for your distraction by the real monsters hummin, coming at ya..., why folks continue to celebrate Grimm's Faery Tales without connecting them up to the real horrors that unfolded across Europe during the Dark and early middle ages.

nomad said...

Ha ha.. that is very funny... There is no such thing as ETs... ". Perhaps you might also add: "Well, maybe there are aliens somewhere in the universe.. but if they had been on Earth, I would know about it." Perhaps you know everything there is to know.

CNu said...

lol, But enough just-so storytelling for small children and folks with sore booties. the burden of physical proof still rests squarely with the true believers. (Don't those anal probes and soft spots on your heads from wearing velostat caps get old after a while?)

What I know for certain Nomad, is that since 2006 - you humans have known and had proof of the fact that dolphins have unique names for one another.

This is a clear indication of language-based subjectivity comparable to your own. Since that time, you've made no meaningful progress in either establishing direct linguistic contact with these non-human intelligences right here on earth with you, and you haven't even broadly trumpeted the fact that your species is not the sole possessor of mind here on the earth.

I consider your prospects for doing either of these two simple things that are easily within your reach fairly dim. How much more implausible is it that you could have ever had contact with mind many orders beyond your own?

To any non-magical thinker, the very notion of pushing craft across the vastnesses of interstellar space is simply ridiculous on the face of it.

But far more rudimentary than such an impossibly grandiose scheme is the simple prospect for encountering a structured signal from space. Just one.

Decades into the task, and there doesn't seem to be any chatter emanating from up above. Mebbe they're just scared and know better like Stephen Hawking proposed. Mebbe scared and quiet is the norm for any intelligent species faced with the vastness of outer space. Or mebbe like you humans, none of these other potential star children make it through their own evolutionary Great Filter so as to mount the Kardeshev Scale and become farmers in the field of stars?

chaunceydevega said...

@Cnu. We also know that ant colonies mirror the neuropathways of the human brain. And never mind the intelligence of crows--did you see that PBS special?

Humans are children--if even that in the universe; we are a type 0 civilization.

I am partial to the idea that alien civilizations have 1) either just ignored us because we are of no interest or 2) they are all around us (the highway analogy) and we are simply too dim to see the obvious.

CNu said...

We also know that ant colonies mirror the neuropathways of the human brain.

Really? What exactly does that mean/imply to you - as a practical matter? Because ants wage war, enslave, do much of what you humans do. You think red ants pause to reflect much on giving the side-eye or a genocidal assault on a black ant hive?

Are ethnic groups biological "Species" to the Human Brain?

Brain Power and Mass-Social Emergence - is excessive cognitive power a hindrance?
The algorithms of caste development and behavior are the first level in the construction of a superorganism. These specialists, working as a functional unit, are guided by sets of behavioral rules..”

Nothing in the brain of a worker ant represents a blueprint of the social order. Colony life is the product of self-organization. A number of different interacting sub-sets of specialists each have a few behaviors with algorithms regarding their use in a few particular circumstances (job descriptions). Citizens often have specialized body-parts for tasks such as communication (interaction).

If mass-social self-organization requires countless predictable interactions between simple algorithms, could superfluous cognitive abilities be a disturbance?

chaunceydevega said...

@Cnu. You are funny, red ant black ant race war. You know I am not the reductionist ;)

This is not my area of expertise, so do enlighten me, my thought has long been, and it is far from an original one, that human beings are embedded in a far more complex bio-eco system than most understand. There are different types of consciousnesses on this Earth, and we know little of them--by choice.

Ignorance will be our undoing.

We are going to learn some hard lessons, lessons our ancestors probably knew thousands and millions of years ago, very soon.

nomad said...

It always amazes me how neoskeptics are so certain that nothing intelligent in the world exists but man. Which is to say that nothing intelligent in the world exists. And all those fantastic crafts that people sight in the sky, even trained military observers and astronauts, are figments of their imagination or government black-ops hiding technology hundreds of years more advanced than the general public is aware. They can't explain great mysteries, yet one thing they hold sacrosanct: It couldn't possibly have anything to do with ET. They know it. A priori. How's that for critical thinking.

nomad said...

Oh. And the "just one" signal from space? not that you will recognize it as such:

CNu said...

Oh. And the "just one" signal from space? not that you will recognize it as such:

rotflmbao..., stop playing nomad!

It always amazes me how neoskeptics are so certain that nothing intelligent in the world exists but man.

don't be illogical or dishonest. on this very thread I've pointed out what I consider irrefutable evidence that dolphins have language and subjective self-awareness comparable to you humans.

As for the rest, you have no earthly idea what I think, believe, or know about non-human intelligence - so tap your brakes nomad.

And all those fantastic crafts that people sight in the sky, even trained military observers and astronauts

Using the conventional model furnished by contemporary physics, how much energy would be required to propel a 10,000lb craft across interstellar space?

Everything else is magical thinking and childish conversation....,

CNu said...

There are different types of consciousnesses on this Earth, and we know little of them--by choice.

Please explain the "choice"?

There are definite quotidian barriers to full conscious experience that each of us know from our own daily routine.

f'zample, why do you only think in pictures and words, and far more of the latter than the former?

Why don't you have continuing volitional access to the cinemascope qualia of the dream state? Why no eidetic memory? Why no routine lucidity during sleeping dream states? Why no deep proprioceptic and and or parasympathetic awareness and volitional control?

No, I don't believe that "choice" is an issue here. Possibly "effort" and "technique" come into play.

As with the Gil-White article. Is racism a choice, or is it an instinctual cognitive error exploited for governance and resource extraction purposes? Is it a red ant/black ant fallacy extremely difficult to overcome for some subset of the human species?

nomad said...

"As for the rest, you have no earthly idea what I think, believe, or know about non-human intelligence - so tap your brakes nomad."

I certainly can't tell from what you wrote.

And I have no brakes.

nomad said...

"Using the conventional model furnished by contemporary physics, how much energy would be required to propel a 10,000lb craft across interstellar space?"

The key word there is "conventional". It would require something beyond our conventional contemporary knowledge of physics. Perhaps the dolphins can tell us.

CNu said...

The key word there is "conventional". It would require something beyond our conventional contemporary knowledge of physics. Perhaps the dolphins can tell us.

lol, given how you humans act, why would they want to? they're right here next door, accessible and busy talking, and you simple, confused, and unintelligent apes are stuck on stupid "looking to the skies...,"

like every other non-human terrestrial intelligence, they've got their fins crossed that you all will do yourselves in before too terribly long and not precipitate any further anthropocene extinction.

nomad said...

LOL. Yeah. They're probably desperately searching the cosmos for some other oceanic world they can migrate to. Cause these fucking homo-sapiens is insane.

Oh Crap said...


Maybe the next daughter will find a good black guy but I don't have my hopes up.

Uh-huh. Your daughters are too good for Black men, and instead should end up with an impregnator/fetishizer like yourself. Right? What if they don't even like men? Who, then, smart feller?

And yet, you whimper and complain about "racism" from all us evil negroes.

You and whites like you are not only part of the problem, your whites-first mentality is foundational to the problem.

If you're ever in doubt why white supremacist impregnators o black women like yourself will never be trusted by us, just look over your post to see what it reveals about your attitude towards us.

Like all white supremacist bigots, you kid yourself that we're too dumb to perceive what is blindingly obvious.

Plane Ideas said...

Oh Crap

Thank you once again for your posts one wonders if anon black wife knows her hubby is a racist? I wish I could email her his comments and she could observe the bigoted who impregnated her...WTF

Rowena Sheppard said...

So if I read this right, I can be accused of racisim because my skin is white(if you can call it that) & I discrimiate on skin or race but if someone discrimates against or abuses me because my skin id so called "white", that is not racisim? I was brought up to understand that all people are just people like me with the same feelings as me so I really find this hard to understand. I also believe (because of my upbringing) that some People have been disadvantaged due to racisim and we should do what we can to level this out. Despite what others of previous generations or lineage to mine have done, if I am subject to prejudice this IS racism and I have experienced it.
Racisim is just that;RACISIM

chauncey devega said...

You can hold onto that 3rd grade understanding of racism if it brings you comfort.

Rowena Sheppard said...

having read other comments I can see there are some very racist people of different backgrounds (exception mixed race father) & what a shame it is on the human species. ciao ciao. not for me.

jason bladzinski said...

The Europeans were not as dumb as you say, the Romans were quite advanced, but they like the great African societies fell and much knowledge was lost for a time. The Europeans conquered the world with two things, guns and disease. Oh, and probably disregard for human suffering. They were great at using religion to enslave populations. If you want to control a people, convert them to your religion and make them fear the wrath of your god(s).

Meka said...

What I take from this entire message is you took nothing away from your experience around blacks but that they are better if the have white genes oh I forgot you said blacks can cook....disappointed. You might as well of married a white woman and your experience as a father of girls would of been perfect.