Tuesday, March 11, 2014

Open Thread: Is He a Sociopath? George Zimmerman Signs Autographs at the New Orlando Gun Show

I will leave this as a quasi-open thread. I am still thinking about this video and the type of person/people who would publicly associate with the killer-street vigilante known as George Zimmerman. Doubling-down Tripling-down Decaling down As I have said many times before, I am convinced that George Zimmerman is sociopathic.

The above video is one more data point in support of that claim.

Am I wrong? What must Trayvon Martin's parents be thinking as they watch this fuckery desperate effort to be in the public spotlight from the person who killed their son in cold blood?

Here is a bonus. Have you ever wondered what George Zimmerman's "aura" reveals to a skilled "reader"? Where is Art Bell when we need him the most?


Myshkin the Idiot said...

I think of him as a narcissist.

"A Narcissist demands his sense of self be propped-up by others on a continual basis. This is because he is disconnected from himself and has no sense of self. Without validation and recognition from the outside world, a Narcissist feels dead inside.

A Narcissist has a very fragile ego and is extremely insecure. He needs others to reflect his image back to him in order to feel alive. A Narcissist is addicted to the spotlight and craves attention and adoration like a drug. He has an insatiable need to be recognized for his achievements, no matter how small or insignificant. He is grandiose and views himself as much more accomplished than he really is…basically, he is delusional and not in touch with reality. He believes other people worship him when in actuality, most people see right through him.

A Narcissist has a sense of entitlement that is unsurpassed. He demands to be idealized by others. If you do not revere him, he will lash out at you. If you do not agree with him, he will retaliate against you. He has no moral code and no conscience. He simply cannot help himself. If you do not admire, adore and revere him, he will devalue and discard you with no remorse."

"A Sociopath, on the other hand, is quite different. To begin with, a Sociopath has no need to be validated by others. Unlike a Narcissist, a Sociopath has no underlying neediness for others approval. His remorseless behavior does not stem from a deep insecurity, like a Narcissist. Instead, he desires to exploit others simply for his entertainment and amusement."


George Smith said...

Why did the news people not ask if Zimmerman was also being paid for his appearance? And why no video of the faces of the men getting their George Zimmerman souvenirs? Wouldn't a reporter want to ask one why they came to stand and get such a thing? Of these, how many will show up on eBay eventually? Suing for $300,000 in lost sales for being booted from the larger venue. Compounded psychopathic scrabbling for blood money, literally.

lioness said...

This. Although keep in mind that there's a strong relationship between narcissists and sociopaths and psychopaths. Crime studies reveal that sociopaths and psychopaths frequently have narcissistic parents. Narcissists teach their children that nobody matters except the parents. It's only one small step -- and a step in favor of self-preservation -- to then decide that nobody matters at all.

Not every child reared by narcissists comes to that conclusion. Most of us see the big picture. But some do.

chauncey devega said...

You mean a good interview with substantive questions? Shame on you.

chauncey devega said...

Aren't some people with sociopathic behavior also narcissists as there are different types and degrees of said behavior?

chauncey devega said...

That is what I thought. But again my understanding of sociopathy--which is not being a "sociopath--is gleamed from accessible pop psyche books.

Myshkin the Idiot said...

my page won't load your comment to me.

One of the comments at the bottom of that article said, "All narcissists are sociopaths but not all sociopaths are narcissists."

That is along the line of how I was thinking. Lioness brought up some great points about it as well.

Myshkin the Idiot said...

Have you seen his paintings? interesting perception of self there.

Then the way the right wing media portrayed him as an above average hero, going out of his way to support that homeless man that was beat by the son of a police officer, rescuing that family from the car crash. He must lavish that sort of attention.

The post trial jubilee... remorselessness for Trayvon's life. You hear about him moving every couple of months. The girlfriend fiasco, "the real George Zimmerman" page, celebrity boxing (?!), now signing autographs!

OldPolarBear said...

I would agree that he seems sociopathic from what I can see (I really don't even like to look) and what I have read about sociopathy. I don't know for sure the essentials of the difference between narcissism and sociopathy, although some of the comments appear to be getting at it. Perhaps there are narcissistic individuals or at least leaning that way who are capable of feeling remorse sometimes? For a sociopath, it is not just difficult to feel remorse or empathy, but rather impossible. I have not heard of anything that indicates Zimmerman feels any remorse for what he did. I can't imagine that anyone who felt remorse could be going around doing this kind of crap.

Myshkin the Idiot said...

ahh, so that's what he does there... I've always seen them described as "paintings"

kokanee said...

CDV —Do you mean sociopath as in someone with anti-social personality disorder or do you mean sociopath as synonymous with psychopath? I think Zimmerman is a sociopath/psychopath. Using the PCL-R (Hare Psychopathy Checklist, he hits almost every item (disclaimer: layman here)
Facor 1
Facet 1: Interpersonal

Glibness/superficial charm
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Pathological lying

Facet 2: Affective

Lack of remorse or guilt
Emotionally shallow
Callous/lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

Factor 2

Facet 3: Lifestyle

Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
Parasitic lifestyle
Lack of realistic, long-term goals

Facet 4: Antisocial

Poor behavioral controls
Early behavioral problems
Juvenile delinquency
Revocation of conditional release
Criminal versatility

Other items

Many short-term marital relationships
Promiscuous sexual behavior —http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopath

The "dark triad/tetrad" is interesting:
-Narcissism is characterized by grandiosity, pride, egotism, and a lack of empathy.
-Machiavellianism is characterized by manipulation and exploitation of others, a cynical disregard for morality, and a focus on self-interest and deception.
-Psychopathy is characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, impulsivity, selfishness, callousness, and remorselessness. —http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad
and sadism (pleasure in inflicting pain on others.

Then there's malignant narcissism which, I've read, is in the middle of a scale with narcissism on one end and psychopathy on the other end. Note that some of the traits on the PCL-R checklist are narcissism traits.

Truth be told, I can't keep all of these labels straight. And does it really matter? Zimmerman is a bad guy and I hope that he gets locked up before some else gets killed.


It might be nice for white people to say, "Zimmerman is a racist because he's a psychopath. He's not representative of us." But I could go one further: racism is sociopathic. See:

Julian Abagond, is interesting. He's like the north of the border CDV. Here's another post more relevant to a prior CDV article:

And this one is a good, "Connect the dots" article by Colin Jenkins:


Neil deGrasse Tyson's Cosmos was excellent. A theme became readily apparent: Don't turn your back on science. Testing theories and observing the results is the only way scientific knowledge advances and that we must not turn our backs on science. It might be on Fox for a reason! The premier can be viewed here: http://www.cosmosontv.com/watch/183733315515

With that in mind, it seems readily apparent to me that there are a much higher percentage of psychopaths/narcissists/sadists in whites than in the rest of the population. But I need data to back that up.

chauncey devega said...

How thorough. I do think that Zimmerman would qualify under the Hare checklist. Sure, pathological racists could be sociopathic. Others are just indifferent and "normal" when dealing with those not the "other". I would also be careful of calling racism a type of mental illness as that allows for all sorts of deflections of responsibility and outs. Racism is an invention. What type of psychohistorical invention is it? Now that is the question. Some don't like his work but I think he is more right than wrong--do check out Joel Kovell's "White Racism: A Psychohistory".

kokanee said...

re: "I would also be careful of calling racism a type of mental illness as
that allows for all sorts of deflections of responsibility and outs."

That's a good point. But psychopathy is not a mental illness in the sense that it can be treated. Psychopathy is pure evil and the best one can do is get the hell away from said person. But yes, point taken.

I still find it disturbing that POC are not registering in white people's brains as people. What is going on? Is it learned pathology? I've seen this behavior for myself: white people really good to white people but down right evil to POC.

kokanee said...

The defining characteristic of a sociopath/psychopath is lack of a conscience. While a narcissist can be a successful member of society, sociopaths eventually trip themselves up. They are self-destructive by definition.


For lack of a better place to post this from April 1, 2012:

Shawn James, Black Freelance Writer: Why I Believe George Zimmerman is a Sociopath

Myshkin the Idiot said...

I've come across Abagond's blog before, they have some good stuff there, just look at the eyes of the white people under the lynching tree they use for their header...

Learning and knowing more about metacognition might help. When I started to realize how I responded just by seeing a black stranger on the street, I really began challenging the conceptions I had about people of color and examining the roots of those in my personal life as well as in the majority society and history.

I remember reading Tim Wise's White Like Me about his grandmother.. She had advocated for anti racism for much of her adult life, but as she aged and dementia set in, she began using those same racially formed mental patterns with people of color she came to meet... it makes me wonder how deep it is and how I can continue to undo it...

Meditation could help, but for the most part the white racists I know strictly bind themselves to Western cultural traditions and everything, EVERYTHING other than that in the world is inferior or a violation of Western Christianity in some way.

kokanee said...


re: Abagond.

Glad you mentioned him. His latest is priceless:
Get to know a White person!

re: "I remember reading Tim Wise's White Like Me about his grandmother.. She had advocated for anti racism for much of her adult life, but as she aged and dementia set in, she began using those same racially formed mental patterns with people of color she came to meet... it makes me wonder how deep it is and how I can continue to undo it..."

Her intellect overrode her conditioning. My father was a racist. That was his conditioning growing up in Austria under the Nazis. But to his credit, he kept his white supremacy, homophobic thoughts to himself until we were adults.

re: "When I started to realize how I responded just by seeing a black
stranger on the street, I really began challenging the conceptions I had
about people of color and examining the roots of those in my personal
life as well as in the majority society and history."

Yes, just doing little things can change the way one "sees" POC. Opening a door and insisting that the other person go through first challenges social norms. Looking at a POC while passing a person on the street in your neighborhood and saying, "Good Morning!" challenges social norms. One cannot help the baggage that one has but one can challenge oneself to be a better person.

Gable1111 said...

I care less about what might mentally ail that fool, as I do about the support he gets in the community at large for carrying on as he does, by giving him a patina of "legitimacy" to explain this and other actions that would typically be disdained. This is nothing more than white supremacy, raising its ugly head yet again.

Prosecute Trayvon Martin said...

Trayvon Martin was, at the time of his death, a
Burglar, a Thief (jewelry, rings earrings, a man's watch), a violent thug who
lusted for "blood", a drug addict, and a MURDERER (Martin decided to
ambush and murder George Zimmerman). Martin became a MURDERER when he
unilaterally decided to ambush and KILL George Zimmerman. Martin's motive
to Murder George Zimmerman was that Martin knew that Zimmerman was a
WITNESS. Zimmerman called 911 because he was a WITNESS. George
Zimmerman watched Martin behaving furtively in the dark wearing a hood in an
area where burglaries had occurred and where Martin was a stranger. Martin had
time to call the Police or to return to the safety of his father's home.
Instead, Martin hid and waited for Zimmerman to appear, and then Martin sprung
out and attacked Zimmerman. Zimmerman cried out for HELP when Martin was
murdering Zimmerman. Martin became a Murderer when mounted and then
struck Zimmerman "MMA" style and by pounding Zimmerman's head against
a concrete sidewalk). Martin is dead because Martin was a Murderer.
People who are truly "respectable" tend to admire men who lawfully
kill Murderers, Robbers, Rapists, and Burglars. Zimmerman proved at his
trial that Martin was an unjustified Murderer. Zimmerman is admired
because Zimmerman lawfully killed a proven Murderer, Burglar-Thief, Sadistic
Thug, and probably a Robber. Respectable People admire Bernard Goetz for
the same reason. As Chris Rock said, criminal blacks have "got
to go". Anyone, white or black who lawfully sends criminal
Murderers, Robbers, Burglars into the GONE AWAY PLACE, are
"respectable" people. On the other hand, a deviant
subculture admires Burglars/Robbers-Murderers such as Trayvon Martin and
Michael Brown. Respectable white people think those blacks who idolize
burglars, robbers, and murderers such as Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown
"sociopaths". The DOJ reported yesterday that the robbery
accomplice of Michael Brown LIED when he said that Brown had his hands
"up" while Brown charged at officer Wilson. Brown was
attempting to Rob (steal the gun) and Murder officer Wilson at the time of his
death. Officer Wilson is a hero for protecting society from that feral
black animal. "Respectable" blacks should be thrilled that
officer Wilson removed Brown's feral black DNA from the African American gene
pool before he could pollute American women with it. Feral Black DNA in
America has "got to go".