Monday, November 19, 2012

Post Mitt Romney, What Does "Whiteness" Mean to You?



Almost two weeks post election, the media is still fascinated by Mitt Romney's defeat and how America's ostensibly changing racial demographics will doom (or not) the Republican Party to obsolescence. The chattering classes are getting a bit more close to the foundational questions that we as a country should be reflecting upon in this moment.

Last week for example, The New York Times offered up an interesting, albeit brief, exploration of the relationship between immigration and American national identity. There, the amazingly accomplished historian, Nell Irvin Painter, an authority on the history of white people, was given too little time to explore the foundational questions that a longer and more sustained essay would have most certainly allowed her. In fairness, the other essays were insightful as well.

However, not one of these excellent short essays broached the basic question of how the black-white binary is dependent upon the fact that African-Americans are by definition "unassimilable." Blacks folks are not an "ethnic" group as classically defined by Sociology--we are the basement group against which non-blacks (and many Afro-Caribbean immigrants) define their position in the social hierarchy. For at least three centuries, this "public" calculus has remain unchanged in the United States.

Perhaps, such questions are political dynamite in the Age of Obama and post-civil rights multicultural America? This fact would explain the obvious evasion.

Moreover, we are not asking these important questions either:

Are demographics destiny? Do race and ethnicity neatly map onto political attitudes and ideology? Are racial categories static or changing? And how does a consideration of how race is a category defined by both stability and change upset all of this premature doomsday epitaph writing for the preeminent power of Whiteness in American politics?

I believe in first principles. As such, we should always strive to define our terms.

For me, one of the values of writing online is that pedagogy can be transformed into a type of public performance--the great Claire Potter who writes for The Chronicle of Higher Education under the pen name "Tenured Radical" is sponsoring a panel at the ASA conference on that very same topic (I was invited to participate, but regretfully had to decline. The invite was so very much appreciated).

I benefit from writing online in many ways. Primarily, this genre of writing forces me to make the theory laded speech that is common to academics (and others) more transparent. These conversations are also helpful because one can survey the range of common sense understandings surrounding such concepts as race, class, gender, and sexuality which exist in day-to-day life.

Social scientists are trained to the idea of the sociological imagination--ironically, many of them forget the power of the quotidian, and how real folks live these concepts, even if they do not have the vocabulary to describe their lives in such academic terms.

To point. I would suggest that the Mitt Romney postmortem of white people, and the role of a particular type of Whiteness in American politics, is both very premature and misspecified.

Before we work through the details of this error in reasoning by the pundit classes, it is necessary to meditate on some basic matters: "Whiteness" as a term and concept is circulating throughout the public discourse during this political moment; let's try to define the essential attributes of Whiteness before talking about its changing relationship to the future of American politics and social life.

For me, Whiteness is many things. These observations are far from exhaustive.

Whiteness is separate and apart from "white" people. There are many white people--and some people of color--overly identified with and invested in Whiteness. However, the socio-historical and political concept known as Whiteness does not necessarily tell me anything about a given white person.

Whiteness is a type of privilege and property. Whiteness is also typified by invisibility and a sense of normality for its owners. As such, in America, to be "normal" is to be white.

Whiteness is benign and innocent for its owners and allies. Whiteness is also terrifying, violent, destructive, and belligerent towards those who have suffered under it.

How would you define Whiteness? Complete the following sentence if you would: "To me, Whiteness is..."

70 comments:

Adam said...

To me, Whiteness is the only rational explanation for the continuing existence of fan support for the Boston Red Sox.

Invisible Man said...

Good Stuff Chauncey good good stuff
Whiteness means deeply inherent and inherited layers of privilege, that creates multiple layers of substantial access not just to the white community, but all communities, which creates more power. For instance white people have far more stature in the white community than I have and far more stature in the hispanic community than I have even though in terms of power I might be closer as a Black man to the hispanic community.

What's remarkable is the numerous levels which this interwoven privilege operates, For instance on this mornings NPR a reporter stated that there are now twenty women in the senate and that this would be a boom for women, but the reporter a white women never stated that all these women are white. So who do you think will benefit from their position of power? I'd say it's safe to assume that white males will get the added benefit, delivered by white women under a "feminist mantle)
privilege protecting, privilege.

Black Sage said...


So what is your "first principle" if not the rejection of objective Supremacy? – Thordaddy

@Thordaddy, here you go again with outright foolishness. CDV already answered your question within the essay by stating: “I believe in first principles. As such, we should always strive to define our terms (CDV).” Even further, you give us a snippet of Whiteness with your silly question as well. Whiteness relentlessly attempt to hijack, obscure and subsequently spin the narrative in their favor. Do you remember Rum Romney, that impeccable White man who ran for the presidency of the US empire, who I alluded to on many occasions as Wishful President Romney? He attempted the same thing with his 47% percent comment. He also said halfrican Obama was the welfare president. Even after the election, he said halfrican Obama won because of “gifts” he gave to Latinos and Blacks. Whiteness is also overwhelmingly mendacious as well.

You see Thor, White people peers at the world through tunneling lens and at the same time, distorts their own peripheral vision rendering them incapable of seeing the world how it truly is. White always put forth a posture of ethereal-esque posture.

Pardon me, I’m off to work, some of us brothas do have a job, I’ll finish you off later!

nomad said...

"So who do you think will benefit from their position of power?"

Funny how that works. Whites benefit when whites are in position of power. But blacks don't benefit when blacks are in positions of power. Go figure.

Steven Augustine said...

CdV:

Only three groups are obsessed with "Whiteness": Blacks, Poor Whites and second-string Minorities looking for that golden loophole of provisional inclusion.

Otherwise, is this not a pointless, medievalist, how-many-angels-on-a-pinhead distraction of physio-hermeneutics? There are *no* stable definitions in the race game and Whiteness is just *one* possible mask on Power... certainly not the source of it. Power and/or The Lack Thereof (and how to confront or what to make of either condition) is the real topic.

Let's cut through (or swerve around) this exhaustingly-circular discourse and get to the heart of things: everyone reading this is oppressed... it's impossible to quantify this oppression and get the numbers to neatly match a color-chart. North American Blacks are poorer by proportion and North American Whites are poorer by sheer number but what really counts is the fact that the 1% are rolling ahead to make the bottom of the pyramid even poorer and they are *unstoppable*. And they are unstoppable for only ONE real reason: the Serfs are so pitifully divided.

I think it makes more sense to redefine "Serf", "Vassal", "Lord", etc, for the modern age and discuss our oppression with more precision (and *togetherness*) than indulging in this eternally-divisive race bullshit. That's why They branded the meme on our souls, after all. Worked like a charm, no?

Let's rebel in a *significant* way, for a change, and start the dangerous work of *uniting* us pyramid-builders.

This blog would be perfect for that... whereas it feels increasingly silly to watch (probable) "Whites" on the brink of foreclosure debating "Blacks" with tenure about whose suffering is historically more real/ blameless/ justified.

Why not break out of that infernal loop? Everyone reading this belongs to the same essential class. Why not build on that...?

diaryofanegress.com said...

May I say 2 things?

First: Thordaddy is a troll. He's been kicked off every site I can remember.

Second: Whiteness is privilege and power. That's why being "white" is more important than being human.

CNu said...

Everyone reading this belongs to the same essential class. Why not build on that...?

I beg to differ with you on this point. We do not all belong to the same essential class.

There are folks who cultivate themselves regardless of comparative poverty, and, there are folks who use comparative poverty as an excuse to steal oxygen.

My man Ed has done a great job of summarizing the broad strokes of "cultural revolution" - and what we're really desperately in need of is a genuine cultural revolution.

nomad said...

"There are folks who cultivate themselves regardless of comparative poverty, and, there are folks who use comparative poverty as an excuse to steal oxygen."

Right you are. Niggers is just lazy an noah count.

Anonymous said...

"To me, Whiteness is..."

...purely a social/cultural construct, with no firm basis in biology.

Steven Augustine said...

@CnU:

"Everyone reading this belongs to the same essential class. Why not build on that...?

I beg to differ with you on this point. We do not all belong to the same essential class."

Dude, we're all Serfs. Period.

chaunceydevega said...

@SA. Blacks with tenure. I wish...one day far in the future. I appreciate the kind hopeful thoughts.

Also, power wears many faces...to borrow the phrase. Whiteness is real. To discuss and objective fact is not divisive. Offer up some other definitions. I am all for discussing Power--one of the topics I am interested in.

I am also very interested in an important concept called Whiteness that is being recentered in the public imagination (not made more peripheral as some would naively suggest) with the defeat of Romney. Whiteness has value and power. It is part of hegemonic power in this society. As such when threatened it will most certainly push back.

@Diary. I have seen the resident hispanic nazi wannabe troll who poses in personal ads in a dirty kitchen at several sites. He was causing all sorts of trouble over at Abagond. I usually delete his mess. But, that makes convos hard to follow on occasion. Alas. I am making some changes long in process very soon and that problem will solve itself more or less.

Knuckleheads of that stripe are mighty entertaining though.

Invisible Man said...

Chauncey

white power doesn't need to be threatened to "push back". In fact it's always pushing as it's aways needs to expand because it's unnatural,
i.e. it's not at harmony with the greater environment because it consumes at twice the natural rate, it needs it's own and ours as well

Anonymous said...

Nomad and Augustine are right. But don't try to get DeVega to admit that. He NEEDS racism, otherwise he'd have nothing to write about. He's as disappointed as any Republican that Obama won. He WANTED Romney to win. Also, he wants to believe that he's a failure in life because he's Black and not because he's an intellectual (or pseudo-intellectual perhaps) with no discernible skills. Teachers hate to admit that those who can't teach. DeVega is one of these teachers but whines about his Black skin holding him back.

Steven Augustine said...

@CdV:

"Offer up some other definitions."

Put it this way: name one attribute that all "whites" have that all "blacks" don't.

Invisible Man said...


I don't have any traits of an elephant, yet I'm not an elephant

Steven Augustine said...

Invisible Man: I can name several traits/attributes that *all* elephants possess that no members of your group (humans) do: I can therefore establish, *scientifically*, that you're not an elephant. Now do the same for "whites" and "blacks". Again: name *one* attribute that *all* "blacks" possess that *no* "whites" possess.

Because you can't, I'm going to have to assume that the distinction (and the greater taxonomy itself) isn't logical/scientific and that it's purely tribal nonsense and was never put in place to "describe"; was always there to *oppress* and to justify the oppression. I'm not saying that this tribal nonsense (like the other tribal nonsense: religion) hasn't resulted in centuries of suffering and slaughter. I'm saying: figure out the Game. Exit the maze.

I also think we're going to have to get with the 21st century, here, and factor in the (re-) Niggerization of Lower Class Whites (and not just Appalachians, either). Privilege is relative, provisional, and easily granted and/or revoked.

Get with the times, Brothers and Sisters, and learn to Unify. It's the ONLY way to fight back.

CNu said...

Dude, we're all Serfs. Period.

Sorry brah.., I'll just have to remain divided and conquered then. If we can't agree on a baseline level of cultural competence and effort, if the "serf" filter is all-inclusive, then that's too dayyum inclusive for me.

The promiscuous and profligate who have failed and who will continue to fail to make basic investments in their own offspring need not apply. Same for their neglected fruit that has rotted on the vine.

If genuinely po folk in Sierra Leone can get'r done, then the obese, ignant, uneducated, and uncouth in Uhmurka have no credible excuse whatsoever for their disgusting and irremediable failures.

Not everyone made it across the Darwinian threshing floor of the American frontier. Everyone's not gonna make it across the dystopian stretch around that signpost up ahead.

Frankly, that's a load that needs to be shed...,

chaunceydevega said...

@SA. This is not about individual white people. Race is a social construct as you know. For all that it matters we could be talking about purple yellow striped people. If the institutional arrangements of power and history were the same the argument would be a mirror for discussing Whiteness. As we discussed a few months back see Brother Charles Mills points on this.

In this society, at this time, and since the invention of "white people" in the 15th or so centuries, whiteness is normality and invisibility to pick two obvious examples.

Also, as an empirical matter, Whiteness is real. Like race it is a true lie and a type of magic or "racecraft" as a new book describes it. That does not make it less socially relevant--for example, poor whites have more wealth and rate of upward mobility than do middle class and upper class blacks for example.

@Anon. I love a good to and fro. Pick a name if you want to chime in and throw insults. Engage the question in a substantive way. What does Whiteness mean to you?

More seriously I thought that my self-esteem issues were related to my malformed and freakish genitals. I am glad you have cracked the puzzle. I will pass on your insights to my therapist.

CNu said...

Niggerization of Lower Class Whites (and not just Appalachians, either). Privilege is relative, provisional, and easily granted and/or revoked.

SA is truth!

Accept no substitutes...,

More of them knowing they've already been left behind than there are of us altogether.

Get with the times, Brothers and Sisters, and learn to Unify. It's the ONLY way to fight back.

Captain Save-a-Ho has always been a losing proposition. This cultural revolution will be the work of the intentional, ruthless, and relentless - channeling the best of Harriet Tubman doing Henry Belsidus f'real.

Steven Augustine said...

CnU:

I'm not urging you to hug anyone here (laugh); I was simply stating the simple fact that we all belong to the same *essential* class, that class being "Serf", which I define not according to any particular member's grace, intelligence, intrinsic value or skills but according to Power. By "power" I mean one's degree of potential Self-Determination on a national or international stage. Can you avoid paying taxes? Can you live wherever the fuck you want, send your children to whatever school you choose, make a decision that will affect thousands? A "no" to any of those questions indicates Serfitude.
Even if you happen to be a millionaire: that merely means that one can buy better toys than the Serfs who can't; it doesn't put one out of the category altogether.

BHO himself (and the whole troupe of repertory actors we call politicians) is just a puppet... and a very powerful (for a Serf) Serf. What happened to Carter, Nixon and JFK should make that obvious.

There are billions of us Serfs, millions of Kapos... why are we so stupid?

Invisible Man said...

CNu;

poor whites might be surfs but us darkies as a race are modern slaves. Look no further, Sir, than the Prison Industrial Complex. And I'm sure you've heard of the book "The New Jim Crow" by Michelle Alexander. I'm a Marxist, but don't be mislead by the white communist (Steven Augustine?) like the protagonist in Ellisons novel Invisible Man. Yes it's about class, but remember how Black people went from surfs to slaves, while the surfs became overseers.

Checkmate

chaunceydevega said...

@IM Bacon's rebellion as always. Or check Theo Allen's work--I am trying to arrange an interview w. his biographer/manager of papers and collection--or Alexander Saxton. Du Bois we forget was essential on these matters too as was CLR James. I can say that while also admiring Eric Williams' master work.

Steven Augustine said...

Invisible:

If you're going to start signifying on me (laugh), read back through my comments to a depth of a week or so. Plenty of biographical material there. Neither Commie nor "Fay". My (maternal) granny was publishing short stories in the "Afro American" way back in 1937 and I met, eg, Mr. Ali in a storefront on 63rd street in 1968 with only two other people in the room, roughly the same year I saw Phil Koran playing revolutionary jazz in the Afro Arts Theater (I was 9-ish) with my father. I also watched my father walk downstairs and across the street to chat with the white feller (FBI? CIA? who knows?) assigned to him. It was a friendly chat; Dad came back across the street laughing.

I'm from another world, alright, but not the one you're guessing at.

Steven Augustine said...

Invusible:

"Yes it's about class, but remember how Black people went from surfs to slaves, while the surfs became overseers."

Okay: let's talk about *now* now. Some notable "Serfs who became overseers": BHO, Condi Rice, Eric Holder, Deval Patrick, Jessie Jackson, Susan Rice, Colin and Michael Powell (read through back issues of Ebony for some other names) ...

Invisible Man said...

Chauncey,

I'm not ashamed to admit when I need to hit the google key because I know none of the names you listed. Except for the legendary "Doctor Du" although not as well as I thought after finishing Robert Norrell's book "Up form History", yesterday. Which challenged greatly what I thought I knew about the great doctor.

Steve Augustine,

I'm not signifying so much as I am trying to get to the marrow of things.

But perhaps I struck a nerve??? If not, I believe the proper response would have been to address my previous comments about the prison system and origins of slavery in America, from indentured servants to slaves for Black people, and freedom for the white indentured servants, which demonstrates the folly of your "we are all surfs argument" And Please understand I'm not an American Mau Mau, just a truth seeker. And while I'm sure your families history is noble, it's not germane to the topic at hand. Albite far more interesting than the "I'm not racist because my daddy marched with King" argument that I get from most white liberals. finally I'm also not sure what Fay means?

Steven Augustine said...

"finally I'm also not sure what Fay means?"

Ask your grandaddy, kid.

Steven Augustine said...

"If not, I believe the proper response would have been to address my previous comments about the prison system and origins of slavery in America..."

Are we now meant to argue at the High School level? Forgive me if I'm not in a remedial mood.

nomad said...

"Some notable "Serfs who became overseers""
Damn right. Might as well call them the overseer class. They job is to keep niggers fooled fucked and forgotten. BHO is the epitome. Niggers be vying for the position.

Once upon a time in a slavocracy far far away, there were two classes of Negroes.

Anonymous said...

Whiteness is the act of performing as a circus monkey being rewarded with a banana and believing you are the ring master.

Black Sage said...

I concur with you SA, we’re all serfs, Blacks and Whites. It’s just too bad that the vast majority of the 99 percenters/poor are unconscious of this fact. Bacon’s rebellion v2.0 would be nice; however, we as a people would first have to bum rush the empire’s gate keepers at Fox News, CNN, MSNBC and many other stations en masse in order to stop the proliferation of hypnotizing networks, thereby creating generational, catatonic viewers. Conditioned people never act in their own best interest.

Steven Augustine said...

@nomad:

"Once upon a time in a slavocracy far far away, there were two classes of Negroes."

I think we can refine that description and come up with dozens of classes, given the will and the proper budget.

nomad said...

@SA
"I think we can refine that description and come up with dozens of classes, given the will and the proper budget."
Sure, you can break them up into sub-categories, but basically they would all fit into one of two broad classes.

Steven Augustine said...

Too true

Steven Augustine said...

@Black Sage:

"It’s just too bad that the vast majority of the 99 percenters/poor are unconscious of this fact."

The Brainwashing is the best that money can buy.

Steven Augustine said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Comrade Physioprof said...

Primarily, this genre of writing forces me to make the theory laded speech that is common to academics (and others) more transparent.

You do a damn good job of it, holmes!

Invisible Man said...

Why do I get the feeling that

Steven Augustine is 50 years old and broadcasting from his bedroom in Daddy's mansion in some exclusive northern suburb all hyped up on Zoloft or some other prescription drug that's causing delusional side effects for him?

If I've crossed the line Chauncey, let me know

Steven Augustine said...

"Why do I get the feeling that..."

Well, because you obviously can't read very well, are only in shaky possession of entry-level knowledge (no, please, *tell me again* about your book report on the "origins of slavery in America, from indentured servants to slaves for Black people!" I'm all ears. I may even give your sophomoric ass a gold star)... and you seem to assume that being unable to spell the word "Serf" makes you Blacker than I am.

You and the semi-literate Chicano-Nazi should get together and hate on your betters in tandem, man. You'll produce a mighty shock-wave of entry-level MEH.

Laugh.

Now back to my "Daddy's Mansion"...! (And you can't even add or subtract: I said I was 9-ish in '68; how does that make me "50" now? Jeezis! Can't you afford an abacus on your paper-hat-wearing salary?)

The Sanity Inspector said...

These conversations are also helpful because one can survey the range of common sense understandings surrounding such concepts as race, class, gender, and sexuality which exist in day-to-day life.

And that is what is missing from much such commentary nowadays: common sense. Somewhere in between the rarified academic stuff and the mere ad hominem abuse on offer by more ordinary black militants, there's a need to translate minority experience for the majority's edification. And that in such a way that the attentive general reader can sympathize, and understand, with the experience being thus relayed.

Razor said...

The concept and genius of Whiteness was initially introduced as a political/social/economic construct of power drawn along neat and racial lines strictly enforced by the "one drop rule" and state action, ensuring it's viability. It's rewards were immediate, tangible and intoxicating. However, to guarantee it's durability it had to be accepted into the very fabric of the Christian churches and sucessfully became an object of worship.

American Christianity became a pagan and profligate religion that required human sacrifices ( Native Americans and Africans) and the surrendering of the adherents souls in an ungodly exchange. Whiteness became the uniquely twisted identity and personification of God himself replete with accompanying ecuminical justifications and hermeneutical exegesis propounded by the leading accepted white religious figures. From there the intellectuals dutifully and popularly followed. The God of White Power/Privilege became the official religion of America.

This official religion was then taught to the slaves for their edification and exported anywhere their churches sent missionaries to "make disciples of all the nations". As we all know, it has been a religion that they have deeply believed in.

Steven Augustine said...

Re: the One Drop Rule: case in point: the video heading this thread. The show is grotesque/ ridiculous but one thing is telling: everybody with the supposed "race change" makeup on... the Black Family *and* the White Family... looks Black.

"The concept and genius of Whiteness..." is also that it flatters those who belong to it into investing in the System... without necessarily giving any power to them. Serf-herding 101.

But part of my Undergrad Lectures on Racism would have to involve flying some Brothers and Sisters from North America to Central Europe for six semesters. They'd have their minds blown to discover that while, for example, Germans think they're superior (to everyone), all *kinds* of "whites" are lower on the ladder than North American Blacks... North American Blacks are definitely more privileged than "Gypsies", Romanians, Greeks and Turks (we seem to be roughly equal to Poles). Racism is racism, but discovering that one is not, by default, the *bottom*, for a change, can help shake our subliminal programming that it's something about *US* that gets us in trouble.

No: it's primitive tribal bullshit and it can actually be negotiated and... eventually... cured. But first we're going to have to let go of our Racial Security Blanky: "Black" (or "White") should only be one of a *thousand* descriptors of anyone and certainly not a definition.

nomad said...

Most whites have no sense of "whiteness" unless they go out in the public sphere.

nomad said...

Most whites have no sense of "whiteness" unless they encounter a black person.

nomad said...

Most whites have no sense of "whiteness" unless they read the news or watch TV.

nomad said...

***"Black" (or "White") should only be one of a *thousand* descriptors of anyone and certainly not a definition.***

Shangodaddy finally gets what MLK taught.

makheru bradley said...

"To me, Whiteness is...something far too many Black people are obsessed with."

OTOH, far too many Black people do not understand white supremacy.

[White Supremacy is an historically based, institutionally perpetuated system of exploitation and oppression of continents, nations, and peoples of color by white peoples and nations of the European continent, for the purpose of maintaining and defending a system of wealth, power, and privilege.

What does it mean to say it is a system?

The most common mistake people make when they talk about racism is to think it is a collection of prejudices and individual acts of discrimination. They do not see that it is a system, a web of interlocking, reinforcing institutions: economic, military, legal, educational, religious, and cultural. As a system, racism affects every aspect of life in a country.

By not seeing that racism is systemic (part of a system), people often personalize or individualize racist acts. For example, they will reduce racist police behavior to "a few bad apples" who need to be removed, rather than seeing it exists in police departments all over the country and is basic to the society. This mistake has real consequences: refusing to see police brutality as part of a system, and that the system needs to be changed, means that the brutality will continue.]-- Betita Martinez

jazzmary said...

I find it interesting that the discussion so quickly digresses to white-black paradigms, as the author points out.. actually,it is white against non-whites. And who are the non-whites, the minority?? Anyone designated by the privileged whites. You can have green eyes, blond hair, fair skin.. and still be in danger of "passing," to gain whiteness privelege.. and many folks have done just that. So to limit this discussion to just white/black is missing the part of the power of whiteness to be excluded.. and above.. ALL others.

chaunceydevega said...

@Jazzmary. Great point. Whiteness is coveted. There are so many tragic stories of black and brown people who passed their whole lives and were "outed" at death or on their death beds. Tragic, not for the cowardly--if not pragmatic choice they made--but rather, for what it tells us about the power of racism in this society.

Razor said...

White people are a numerical minority in the world. Whiteness, however, has become synonymous with preeminent world power, wealth and ruthless domination.

Yesteryear, centuries ago, those descriptors belonged to other peoples from places other than than the more recent peoples of Europe...they were peoples and nations from Africa and Asia...all were in many ways like the European and European descendants of today in their arrogance, hunger for more power and wealth, and self-deification. All of those nations and civilizations fell from within...as will the US and Europe.

You see the signs now if you look carefully. More and more whites are beginning to find real religion as they see the betrayal of the elite whites who want to make them slaves again too along with us black folks, like Old Europe.

As the multi-national corporate and banking class are conspiratorily setting up the world domination order, you are seeing the evisceration of the middle class and the tranfer of power from the government into private control, not only in
Europe but here in America. People are in the streeets all over Europe.

Do you see that SA?

Ben Brung said...

Whiteness means being really bad at identifying causal relationships and valid scientific evidence. That there are white people who are poor is not evidence of how being white causes poverty. That you worked hard and achieved success does not constitute a scientific study that proves that hard work=success, therefore, 2(hard work)=2(success), and, 0 success = 0 hard work. It's a seductive way to think because there's no limit to the ways you can prove to yourself how noble and fair-minded you are without having to actually be either. It is a great process, though, for creating superstition which, ironically, is kind of exactly what the scientific method was created. Incidentally, the scientific method and and has been used to successfully create science about race but it's a lot more work. Scientific Method Spoiler Alert: The devastating effects caused by racism against / oppression of white people turns out to be like cold fusion . . . attractive idea that hasn't really panned out yet but we'll keep tryin'.

chaunceydevega said...

@Razor. Green is king. Will the masses wake up?

@Ben. Damn you your logic. That is a great comment and devastating take down of their race witchcraft. Do post more often.

Steven Augustine said...

@Razor:

"People are in the streeets all over Europe.

Do you see that SA?"

In Greece and Spain, sure; not in Germany... Germany is calling the shots, after all. My friends in the USA seem to be harder hit but are under the impression that drastic things must be happening *here*. But our family business is based on a "luxury" and there is no decrease in sales (and luxury item sales in general are clearly robust).

What I've noticed, for about a decade, is that the "financial news" on the net is wild/contradictory and clearly in the service of those who are manipulating the markets. So, take *everything* you read on the topic with a diamond-sized grain of salt.

Razor said...

SA, Germany is the exception but things are beginning to change with regards to wages which are lowering. The push for austerity measures is otherwise hitting all of Europe. Of course, it's all part of the grand scheme after the worldwide thefts of the banking//investment/political elites of persons and government treasuries.

There is no doubt that these same entities have continued to manipulate all things financial. Your friends are correct, drastic things are happening here. Though luxury items have continued to do well because of those who are prospering. Depending on your luxury item and your clientele determines whwether some of your customers are fronting or just dreaming and hoping.

Steven Augustine said...

@Razor:

The Bundesbank (notable co-sponsor of WW2) is buying up Greece at fire-sale prices. Skilled labor is the canary in the coalmine in West Germany (the out-of-work young male fasco knuckleheads of the East are congenitally unemployed, ) but I doubt it'll get to the point that every household won't be able t afford new TVs. It was *so* phat here for so long (I knew several people on unemployment getting 80% of their full salaries for *years*; the 6-weeks of paid vacation everyone took for granted, et al) that some butter can be trimmed without noticeably increasing the ranks of the homeless (who tend, over here, to be lunatics/ drug addicts: it's not like in the US where you see recent-manager-types panhandling). I enjoy lots of walking around the city and have a yearly subscription to the "metro" and it's the same old beggars on the trains and various city centers. Very few new faces. That's a good empirical metric.

What we're generally being fed in the "news" is a bunch of bs to cover what's going on in Europe: the corporate entities which won the war are patiently consolidating the victory. Do they really need the Euro in order to do so? I doubt it.

What's *really* interesting is Iceland... and the paradigm-shifting shit that went down *there*: some serious Maximilien Robespierre shit! Not many "news" assets seem to be talking about it. Well, there's a reason for that!

When I was a kid and watching magic acts, I trained myself to look at the hand that the magician seemed to want me to ignore! laugh

CNu said...

What's *really* interesting is Iceland... and the paradigm-shifting shit that went down *there*:

Cuh-learly the shizznit! No cultural revolution required.....,

{makes me wonder, what did they do to dispense with their useless eaters and oxygen thieves....,)

nomad said...

"{makes me wonder, what did they do to dispense with their useless eaters and oxygen thieves....,)"

What? They got jiggaboos in Iceland?

Steven Augustine said...

Off With Their Heads

and

White Shaft

and

Ah, Look, the IMF is double-bluffing with Praise

Steven Augustine said...



If They Were Brown, Their Asses Would Already Be Invaded

Steven Augustine said...

And what does Iceland teach us? That it's harder to fuck with Homogeneous (relatively undivided) Serfs. Which also teaches us why, for example, places like the UK suddenly started importing lots and lots of "foreigners" (and not, as in post War Germany, for cheap labor); last time I lived in London was the very early 1990s and when I went back in 2002 and walked Oxford Street, I thought I was in an imaginary province of the Levant! Keeping those Serfs heterogeneous and easy to manipulate.

CNu said...

And what does Iceland teach us?

That a well-educated, deeply culturally embedded, and linguistically and racially homogeneous group of independent and democratically governed people are hard to fuck with.

That it's harder to fuck with Homogeneous (relatively undivided) Serfs.

Has nothing whatsoever to do with the ignorant, dysfunctional, uncultured, uncouth, and uselessly-eating throng that these geriatric emotional negroes incessantly obsess over and whine about.

shiiiiit SA, even if you were talking 1959 black america, when race really and truly mattered, the Pittsburgh Courier had a national circulation of 400,000 and Sidney Poitier, Harry Belafonte, Nat King Cole and other exemplars set the popular cultural bar - we wouldn't have had a prayer of meeting the 1000 year old internal governance standard of the Althingi.

It's interesting to note that the international banksters even got in there to sew their parasitic seeds of mischief in the first place, and it's not as if Iceland dislodged the parasite unscathed in the process.

Steven Augustine said...

@CnU:

"shiiiiit SA, even if you were talking 1959 black america, when race really and truly mattered, the Pittsburgh Courier had a national circulation of 400,000 and Sidney Poitier, Harry Belafonte, Nat King Cole and other exemplars set the popular cultural bar - we wouldn't have had a prayer of meeting the 1000 year old internal governance standard of the Althingi."

I never for an instant claimed that the situation isn't desperate and the prospects aren't bleak, Bro! Laugh

Steven Augustine said...

PS @ CnU:

If you don't already know it (and this is not really a non-sequitur, regarding either the thread-topic or the most recent turn in the conversation), check out John Gardner's Grendel... I think you'll get a kick out of it.

nomad said...

"Has nothing whatsoever to do with the ignorant, dysfunctional, uncultured, uncouth, and uselessly-eating throng that these geriatric emotional negroes incessantly obsess over and whine about."

The force is strong in this one. Way to scape them goats. I wonder if there are any white useless eaters in America. Or are they all black?

CNu said...

lol@staymad...,

Dood, the term ni ni is an actual slang reference to the millions of no education, no job, no prospects mexicans living in makeshift "camps" in the burgeoning megacities of Mexico. It's these riff-raff who have been pressed into service in the narco-civil war still roiling that entire nation just a few hundred miles from you.

Now, I grew up in and continue to live in flyover country, the very heart of the methamphetamine scourge in the U.S. - how'n'a'phuk you think I haven't witnessed and don't have in mind the pasty Walmartians who outnumber your beloved niglets several-to-one?

I lampoon these muhuggahs dayyum-near daily at the blog. But if I'm going to be making idle conversation with black folks, I'm going to limit my ambit to issues presumably of concern to black folks.

To me, a ni ni is a ni ni. Another inconvenient bump in the road that I or my children will have to deal with in the context of continuously tightening times.

To you, although a ni ni wouldn't extend you any such cultural or racial courtesy, a ni ni is "someone" with whom you insanely identify exclusively on the basis of pigmentation. Good luck with establishing and safeguarding your intentional community in the ni ni wastelands staymad....,

CNu said...

Here's how I picture these mentally crippled emotional negroes - lip all poked out - Hmmph! CNu ain't say nuffin bad bout dem nasty-azzed ignant whidte folks!!!

rotflmbao@priceless.comedy.gold...,

Steven Augustine said...

@Nomad

"I wonder if there are any white useless eaters in America."

Well, I tried to introduce the meme earlier, but it ain't a popular meme: the (re)Niggerization of the "White" Serf proceedeth apace.

I've never seen the show but I've seen the YouTube clip and the whole "Honey Boo Boo" phenom is more significant than most seem to Grok, initially: those folks aren't exactly aberrations and there are more of them than there are "Blacks" in Murrkka.

It's just that the *other* Hollywood image of Whiteness (featuring the Scarletts and the Ryans), the "idealized" version, remains the image most Murrkkans access when defining Whiteness. Uh: nope. Reality, as ever, falls somewhat catastrophically short of the Photoshopped Ideal.

I was raised to be "better than the white kids" in every way. When I finally met "the white kids" I had to laugh, because being "better" wasn't saying much: they were as Average as my original Hoodmates.

People forget that propaganda isn't just for Demonizing the Other; it's even more useful in giving a burgeoning techno-fascist dictatorship a delusionally Olympian self-image.

CNu said...

bears repeating;

I was raised to be "better than the white kids" in every way.

I was raised to be "better than the white kids" in every way.

I was raised to be "better than the white kids" in every way.

THAT encapsulates the cultural revolution WE require in order to obtain and maintain collective agency in the fin d'siecle.

Everything else is merely conversation...,

CNu said...

Sorry fellas, me and mini me are all chia'd up and have to jet to the courts for practice and few sets while it's still a climate changed balmy 62 degrees in killa city.

Catch up with you later on today.

Steven Augustine said...

Later!

nomad said...

OK, CNut.
I was just wondering. All I've heard you whine about til now is jiggaboos.