Wednesday, September 12, 2012

Professional Black Conservative Race Hustling Group "Project 21" Condemns Chauncey DeVega Again...Sigh

Project 21 member Demetrius Minor rebuts Chauncey and suggests the left clean its own house of hatred, saying:
This is another example of the vile and vicious hate displayed by the left.  Instead of engaging in a dialogue that would help progress racial relations, liberals have decided to ostracize and demonize black conservatives.  We must condemn this despicable rhetoric once and for all.
I would like to thank my friends, god, the academy, Joy Yee's Chinese Restaurant, and Sapporo beer for this award.

More fun from my honest--and apparently quite provocative critique--of the pregnant silence by Black Conservatives regarding their white masters in the Tea Party GOP's plans to prevent African Americans from voting in the upcoming election. The "break in case of emergency professional black conservative best friends and support group" Project 21 is upset at me again. I last earned their attention when I called out Herman Cain's race minstrel routine last year. For a second time--is that a record for pseudonymous members of the online commentariat class?--I am now a proud recipient of their auspicious, wonderful, ire and disdain.

I also learned something new in reading their complaints as shared with the Right-wing organization The National Center for Public Policy Research, I am apparently at the center of a vast Left-wing conspiracy:
Besides the Daily Kos, Chauncey’s rants can still be read on AlterNet as well as Salon and the Washington Post-bankrolled The Root.  So these are not the rantings of a lone individual with a purchased web address — Chauncey is well-regarded and supported in his hate mongering by the leftist establishment.
Once more, where is my check?

Ignoring my suggestion that it is a bad look for black conservatives to channel Brother Douglass given that the former are in bed with white racial reactionaries, and in another life would have printed the postcards announcing their own spectacular lynching, Project 21 member Stacy Swimp offers:
Black conservatives embrace Frederick Douglass because he — perhaps more than anyone else, especially for his time — promoted individual responsibility, a work ethic and limited government as a path toward growth and gain for black Americans.  He felt the best thing government could do for black Americans at the time was to get out of the way of their progress.
Frederick Douglass honored the dignity and resolve of black Americans and sought for them to rise and fall on their own merits.  He knew people contain the ability to succeed on their own.  He felt nothing could be stop success if one applied themselves, and that is why black conservatives embrace and honor him today.
Neither slavery nor racism are solely to blame for the current condition of America’s urban communities.  Moral surrender was our undoing.  It is very interesting for a black leftist to chastise black conservatives for looking to Frederick Douglass for guidance and strength after the left has perverted the message of people such as him as they have tried to systematically sabotage those he fought for.
The left has institutionalized an inferiority complex among too many people.  Black conservatives embrace the Frederick Douglass and his teachings to reverse this terrible condition.
I am curious about one matter. These black conservatives like to complain about Chauncey DeVega but they never reach out for an interview. Why is that? What are they afraid of?

 I would love to debate a representative from Project 21 (or some sad soul they want to offer up as a sacrifice) about the role of black conservatives in the Tea Party GOP.

They can even bring friends along so that it will be a fair fight. It is a small world; perhaps one of the black water carriers for the neo-Confederate Right will step up to the plate and we can put on a show?

173 comments:

majii said...

IMO, the members of Project 21 have their heads stuck so far up their behinds that they're cutting off the oxygen to their brains that would permit them to view America realistically. Each one of them should have a sign on his/her back that says: "Kick me," because of their willingness to stay in a political party that has zero respect for them.

chaunceydevega said...

@majii. kick em in the butt and pay them for the privilege. like a political bdsm game.

Invisible Man said...

Interesting, Black conservatives are in the Republican Party not for Black people, but to position themselves for the crumbs that fall from the table. Meanwhile Black liberals are in the Democratic Party not for Black people either, but because that's all they know, fear, and to position themselves for crumbs as well and maybe neck bones if they're the overseers. Yea I'd like to debate you both, but I'm sure you would be more fun to drink with ;-)

Aadonis219 said...

@ CD
I am inclined to think perhaps these conservatives you speak of are not just afraid of rational/fact laden debates but also have a penchant for being reality/intelligence intolerant for persons such as yourself and or other persons of colour. When adhering said facts they often find themselves woefully malnourished -especially when used in context to bolster their argument. Concious of such a paltry grasp of how shit really works in order to digest what is quite literally every one else's reality- it is not uncommon for Conservatives and their Minority minions to mend/alter/modify (and out right lie) these truths to supplement their caloric intake.
As one who fancies metaphors, I liken the symbiotic relationship of Minority Conservatives and the White Conservative collective to that of the egret and elephant-pun intended. SOME Minority Conservatives do not mind basking in the shade the Majority leaves them as they are free to pick the blood leaching louse/ticks/fungi that plague the Right. While the Conservatives are privy to a free "cleansing" of racism/parasites via their Minority minions serve as tangible assets to diffuse any notion of racism/bias/sexism/homophobia - The egrets or Minority Conservatives are also privy to a free happy meal-ever so giddy to be dining in the presence of their idolized White providers. While completely oblivious the the obvious it is worth noting that for some, dinning on the dregs of Conservatives is oft confused for dinning WITH them. Bonus Irony -in some respects the Minority Conservative can operate much like the very vermin they feed on preened off the hides of political party hosts for personal gain.

Thrasher said...

I opine that Black folks need to be everywhere are interests are in play and in peril..

I just don't like how Black Conservatives just genuflect and remain silent in the GOP when they have contempt for Black Americans

I also resent how Black Conservatives allow themselves to be used as buffers and apologists when Conservatives seek to margainlized us..

makheru bradley said...

@CDV “The pregnant silence by Black Conservatives” is trampled by the deafening silence of Black liberals regarding the epic failure of Barack Obama’s domestic and foreign policy which, for example, resulted in the lynching of Black people in Libya.

Make no mistake about it Barack Obama was the driving force behind NATO’s war of aggression on Libya.

[Obama sent his staff from the meeting saying that he wanted an alternative to the no-fly zone — something real that actually solved the problem in Libya.
At the team's next meeting in the Situation Room, they presented the option to push for a U.N. resolution to take "all necessary measures" to protect the people of Libya and use America's faster, more powerful air force to eviscerate Qaddafi's army. The Europeans would be in charge of the clean-up. This option was distasteful to basically everyone, but Obama.

As you know, Obama decided against inaction — "That's not who we are," he told Lewis. “Then Obama went upstairs to the Oval Office to call European heads of state and, as he puts it, 'call their bluff."]--
"How President Obama Made The Most Controversial Military Decision Of His Presidency"

Obama got what he wanted. Libya became his "recipe for success."

[To do their dirty work, NATO employed the most barbaric marauders they could find. These Islamist mercenaries are programmed, sadistic fighters – they have been on the battlefields in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Libya. They have been hired many times over by NATO, who characteristically plays all sides, and that is why they need to sprinkle stimulant powders on their food - to keep them in killing mode. Shouting Allahu Akhbar, like robots, they go from town to town, city to city, ransacking, beating, torturing, raping and murdering, and then, in their crazed state, with inflated feelings of omnipotence, they actually take footage of themselves committing heinous war crimes and post them on youtube.

Having black skin and asserting one's Africanity has become a crime in the new Libya. Ethnic cleansing is continuing unabated. Every day Black Africans from Libya and other parts of Africa are hunted down. Thousands have been brutally tortured and executed. Rape of Black women is a favored weapon of NATO's Islamists. Many of the female bodies found show signs of rape, beatings and torture.] -- Gerald A. Perreira

The lives of innocent Black people and Libyan civilians did not matter to the "Butcher of Libya."

Today he was introduced to Blowback. And the silence is still deafening.

Invisible Man said...

@makheru bradley

Let us not forget the epic silence of Black liberals when Obama lined his cabinet with leaders of the financial industries who after collapsing our economy continue to receive bailouts, tax breaks and every government subsidy imaginable. Or the epic silence at allowing the leaders of the health insurance lobby into the white house to write what's now called Obama care off of a Heritage Foundation blue print. And turning over education policy to to an unqualified Chicago hack schooled in privatizing schools as a national form of patronage. This should be enough to make a colored man think black, but all we do is point to the Republicans!

Black Sage said...

This Stacy Swimp SHRIMP character of Project 21’s cacophany of nonsense is killing me softly.

Perhaps more than anyone else, especially for his time (Frederick Douglass) promoted individual responsibility, a work ethic and limited government as a path toward growth and gain for black Americans. – Stacy Swimp SHRIMP / Project 21

In reply – Here, Stacy foolishly suggest that the work ethic of Black Americans slaves was lacking or lazy. Although the slaves worked from childhood to adulthood, from the time the sun came up and until the sun set in the afternoon without compensation. Even further, Stacy also hinted that somehow the slaves were responsible for enslaving themselves by not working hard enough as a path towards freedom and that Frederick Douglass advocated personal responsibility. Douglass did not promote personal responsibility, I’m certain that he wasn’t against it, if anything, he continually recommended governmental responsibility through his writings and oratory skills as it related to the southern states’ slave regime.

Additionally, Stacy also suggests that the slaves wanted limited government. Stacy’s writings are the equivalent of the type of material that me and my peers shoveled just for fun while we were in the midst of our pubescent stage. How in the hell the slaves could’ve wanted limited government when in fact, they didn’t have a say so regarding how long they slaved each day, they didn’t own the old, torn clothes they wore, nor did they have sick leave or vacation hours to take a day off from slaving. Hell,….. the slaves didn’t have a say so regarding anything!

He felt the best thing government could do for black Americans at the time was to get out of the way of their progress. – Stacy Swimp SHRIMP

In reply – Stacy SHRIMP never specifically states what progress were being made as the slaves were still on the plantation fields all across the southern states. Perhaps Stacy was referring to the House Negro having been given permission to wear the slave master’s hand-me-down suit in addition to a tattered top hat to wear while tap dancing.

Frederick Douglass honored the dignity and resolve of black Americans and sought for them to rise and fall on their own merits. – Stacy Swimp SHRIMP

In reply – How in the hell could Frederick Douglass have honored the resolve and dignity of the slaves and wanted for them to fall and rise on their own merits without political, financial or social clout? Now, Stacy have me truly confused!






Thrasher said...

Libya's collapse had very little to do with BO it was a failure of the a corrupt state and dictator it is nonsense to blame BO the fruits of Libyan meltdown existed long before BO tenure..

More importantly to embrace such a false narrative serves to diminish the power of the Libyan people for liberating themselves we must stop embracing these western narratives that articulates themes that gives power to creations like NATO instead of the indigenous people of Libya

Invisible Man said...

Thrasher is totally right! Remotely piloted American drones firing missiles into Libya, and U.S. Navy destroyers, USS Barry and USS Stout, amphibious warships USS Kearsarge and USS Ponce, and command-and-control ship USS Mount Whitney, and submarines USS Providence, all firing missiles into Libya had nothing to do with President Obama as well. It was all Romney. He snuck into the White House when Obama was Singing "Lets Stay Together" to Black people and then again when he was telling the Black Caucus (on National TV) to quit complaining, winning and crying. In short, Thrasher is not yet another middle class Black person who turns his back on Obama's record with poor and working class Black people and poor white people while actively promoting The Military Industrial Complex, Financial Industry, and the Insurance Industry, equally to if not more so than George Bush I.

Steven Augustine said...

"Libya's collapse had very little to do with BO it was a failure of the a corrupt state and dictator it is nonsense to blame BO the fruits of Libyan meltdown existed long before BO tenure."

This is a propaganda-fed falsehood. Cynthia McKinney, a well-educated and terrifically brave woman (who has suffered for both attributes) went to Libya and witnessed, first hand, the profoundly illegal Nato blitzkrieg which destroyed that country.

An excerpt I cited elsewhere, today:

***A fact the media cannot falsify is the HDI (Human Development Index) measured by UN officials. These data indicate, for example, that Libya had in 1970, a situation a little worse than Brazil (HDI of 0.541, against 0.551 of Brazil.) The Libyan index surpassed the Brazilian years later, and in 2008 was well ahead: 0.810 (ranked 43rd), compared to 0.764 for Brazil (ranking 59th). All three sub-indices that comprise the HDI are higher in Libya: income, longevity and education. Libya is the country with the highest HDI in Africa. Therefore, the best distribution of income and health care and public education—the last two are free. And almost 10% of Libyan students receive scholarships to study in foreign countries. In his “Green Book” Gadhafi wrote that workers should be politically involved and self-employed, and that the land belongs to those who work it and the house to those who reside there. And power shall be exercised by the people directly, without intermediaries, without politicians, through popular congresses and committees, where the whole population decides the fundamental issues of the district, city and country...real democracy, not capitalist “representative” democracy that works for those who have the most and ignores those who have little. (Taken from “Who Is Muammar Gaddafi?” by Antonio Cesar Oliveira)

Before the current USNATO military invasion, Libya was pumping one million 800 thousand barrels a day of excellent quality light oil, along with abundant deposits of natural gas. Such riches—because shared with the Libyan people--allowed Libya to reach life expectancy that is almost at 75 years of age and the highest per capita income in Africa. In December 1951, Libya became the first African country to attain its independence after WWII. Its harsh desert is located over an enormous lake of fossil waters, equivalent to more than three times the land area of Cuba; this has made it possible to construct a broad network of pipelines of fresh water that stretch from one end of the country to the other. (Taken from “Does NATO Plan To Occupy Libya?” by Fidel Castro, 2/22/11)****


Gaddafi was mocked as a nut and a dictator to get the American public (who can't be bothered to read anything more taxing than half of the back of a cereal box) to sign off on his lynching. Which you have done. As you signed off on the lynching of thousands of Black Africans who died along with Gaddafi, at the hands of the same hired killers. How Afrocentric is that?

Educating ourselves involves more than watching/quoting CNN/CBS et al. CNN/CBS et al are propaganda outlets (why wouldn't they be?)... and to the extent that WARN lazily parrots these, WARN is propaganda, too.




Thrasher said...

Middle class Black Americans are hurting and under duress creating divisive class angst does not serve Black America under any presidential tenure.

There is nothing progressive about a hollow narrative that views America as some omnipotent imperial empire that influences every act in 3rd world venues. This old worn out progressive saga insults the reality of indigenous people in 3rd world who make a difference and will continue to make a difference in their countries .

Thrasher said...

Disconnected propaganda from progressives is as lethal right wing propaganda ! Libya's Arab population has a long legacy of contempt for Black Africa .

Gaddafi is no hero in the Black Diaspora to suggest as much appears like the work of some right wing operative .


Inserting the honorable and courageous CM into a backward cut and paste rant reveals the hollow depth of a propagandist who will be slammed in WARN

Invisible Man said...

Thrasher has a proclivity for answering specifics with vague generalities as is typical of all Obama sycophants

Thrasher said...

One other comment inserting my comments as someone who sanctioned the lynchings of Black folks is vile and from this point forward anything you post now has zero respect from this quarter. You wrote that like some red neck cracker spitting shit out of your mouth drinking dirty well water ..,

Thrasher said...

Invisible Man vomits the same impotent talking points like some side line cheerleader at a Nader rally.

Endless chatter without any substance but such is the nature of so many posters who hide behind an mask and spout psychobabble ..

fred c said...

CD, they're not interested in debating with you. Your only reality to them is as proof of "Liberal hate." Or "Black hate," or something, who knows how they think? You come with a "Handle With Care" warning; you don't fit their preferred stereotype of Black Americans.

They say, "get a good education, and a good job, and you'll see the Republican light." But you have a good education, and a good job, and yet you resist the logic. Good for you, but they don't get it.

I hope that you get a chance to wipe the floor with some of these guys. It could happen. I hope it does.

fred c said...

Greg's right by the way, Mediterranean Africans, Egyptians, etc, have a multi-thousand year record of contempt for Black Africans.

Just look at any Egyptian art from the ancient period, see how the "Nubians" are doing in the narrative. It's easy to pick them out, they're the Black ones, and usually they're the ones getting hit in the head with a war club.

Somebody should write cautionary folk tales about this shit, it's that deep.

Steven Augustine said...

"Greg's right by the way, Mediterranean Africans, Egyptians, etc, have a multi-thousand year record of contempt for Black Africans."

That's such a sweeping generalization I won't bother trying to sort it out.

If Greg Thrasher has respect for the wonderful Ms. McKinney (as he appears to), why is he recycling propaganda that goes against everything she risks her life to protect?

MS MCKINNEY SPEAKS OUT

Steven Augustine said...

If you have actual facts to refute this, please do so. "Shouting" won't make your case for you.

MORE MS MCKINNEY

Invisible Man said...

Thrasher, oh master of the "narrative". Occupy Wall Street, Occupy the Hood, Cornel West, Matt Taibbi, etc are other narratives( separate from Nader), that are also worthy of investigation and incorporation. As opposed to the status-quo of failed white liberalism that can't even match the grassroots organization of the Tea Party or white hatecore music. I'd think that with the drastic and fundamentally changing, of our world and country, you're narrative would expand ( just a bit) as opposed to failed white DNC liberalism, promoted by people like fred c, in order to protect their white privilege first and foremost, again at least the Republicans are "honest" about their b.s. Oh and I've spent time in Egypt, so spare me the divide and conquer oh great white father.

Thrasher said...

@ Steven,

I am not interested in refuting your twisted analysis..Cynthia knows how much respect I have for her...

In truth it is your weak cut and paste analysis and your vile comment about me and lynching that I object to ..

As I noted your words meaning nothing to me now..

Thrasher said...

@ Fred,

Preach my brother..As usual your sage perspectives always make the day in here..

@Invisible Man

Please spare me the Black Militant Posturing and the NOI white men are evil rant. I have never posted that CWest, Occupy Movements,etc are misguided in any measure. You are starting to post like our host inserting your scripted inferences to push your platform. Sorry but not on my dime.

What troubles you about Fred's truth slaying on this topic? Unlike you and to many others I am not interested in purchasing the narrative that BO is a puppet of some powerful cabal... Nor am I interested in waging some impotent progressive chatter class theme that BO is the latest imperialist from the womb of corporate capitalism

Here is a novel idea stop sucking up to chatter class drive by 'white google infused empty starbuck coffee drinkers' and create your own narratives...lol,lol,lol

Steven Augustine said...

Thrasher: no need to refute me directly, but you'll need to refute Cynthia's own words (as linked above)... or risk appearing to know nothing on the actual topic. "Outrage" and bluster can only get you so far.

And what you refer to as "cut and paste" is actually the act of *citation*. A reference to published facts (eg, Libya's standard of living before the blitzkrieg) supports an argument; an argument without supporting facts is empty rhetoric.

More "copy and pasting" out of you (and Fred) would be great if it meant you'd be importing a few facts in there with all the heated rhetoric. "Lol" is not information.

Steven Augustine said...

@Fred: you should do a little reading on Cheikh Anta Diop before you spread that nonsense about which Africans despised other Africans and why. Again, you're recycling propaganda that serves an obvious agenda... but does the agenda really match your own? I certainly hope not.

Thrasher said...

Yawn ... So in others words instead of measuring up to my dismissal of your hollow analysis this is what you got a arts and letter comeback ... WTF

You are desperate now but your weak ass reply does noting for nor does it deflect the reality that after your vile lynching attack on me you remain an intellectual coward of a cracker ..

Now run that by your English grammar and punctuation instructor you closet wimp

nomad said...

"Just look at any Egyptian art from the ancient period, see how the "Nubians" are doing in the narrative. It's easy to pick them out, they're the Black ones, and usually they're the ones getting hit in the head with a war club."

Nonsense. The Egyptians admired the culture from which they sprung. That's why their ultimate diety, Osiris, was always depicted black (well sometimes blue. never red or white though).

nomad said...

Color prejudice was not an issue back then. The practice of depicting the people you had conflict with (as did occur between Nubians and Egyptians)being defeated and humiliated is coming throughout the history of state art. It wasn't cause they was black.

nomad said...

is *common* throughout the history

Thrasher said...

@Fred

I saved some words do you could dismissed this yahoo's attempt to matter on WARN for many moons now this impotent closet clown had tried to have some value in here but it is obvious now he is a classical example of what passes now an intellect on the Internet ..

This nobody creation of the chatter class clearly has no real contact with people that matter certainly in the manner in which he posts he has no depth or understanding of real Black folks . He reminds me of white bohemian types who show up in the margins around Black folks and then claims he knows us and will pen a novel about his deep relationship with MLK or the Black Panthers like the Jewish bigot David Horowitz did ...lol lol

nomad said...

And, for that matter look at the Nubian dynasties of ancient Egypt.

Yeah, you're right. I'll probably think of something else I want to say in a minute.

@Thrasher
I'm neutral on the discussion you're having with Stephen. So far your side is short on facts. BO had no involvement in the killing of Kaddaffi? Come on, man. Back that up.

nomad said...

Ever notice the uncanny resemblance between Akhenaten and Obama?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fhTkpv9OYo

Steven Augustine said...

@Thrasher:

Still waiting for a coherent response.

Did you know anything about Libya before the invasion? Do you know anything about Libya now? Do you know/understand what Cynthia McKinney was doing there? Are you aware of her presentations on the topic?

*All* of Cynthia McKinney's comments on Libya, and the administration which presided over the destruction of Libya (there's quite a substantial record) are diametrically opposed to your comments (as vague as yours are) and your apparent position on the topic.

Are you claiming to know more about the matter than Ms. McKinney?

You claim to respect Ms McKinney. Do you, at the same time, consider her a fool?

Thrasher said...

Nomad ,

So now you are the forum's peanut counter? I offer authentic perspectives not cut and paste references of questionable data and quotes of marginal professors.

With regard to your pure speculation about Obama's role in the death of Kaddaffi you inserted this fiction so where are your proofs??

Wait I almost forgot you are one if those antiObama robots who always show up in white liberal venues to express your objectivity ..lol lol

Steven Augustine said...

All rhetoric, no facts, little sense... tons of attitude.

Works for the street corner; slightly flimsy in a comment thread.



Thrasher said...

Yep..Instead of your template of cut and paste,hollow inferences, empty trite dogma and the stench of intellectual cowardice...

Keep trying to matter with me but as I noted earlier I have zero respect for poster who hides behind a mask and vomits out cut and paste analysis and then tries to posture as some intellectual posters like you infused with goggle level knowledge and depth amuse me...

Now run along you bore me now..lol,lol

Steven Augustine said...

@Thrasher:

Gee, sorry you're bored! Let us know when you've developed a coherent argument.

Thrasher said...

Yep and let us know when you will come out of the closet and start posting something authentic instead of your usual cut and paste act...

Inflated white folks of the chatter class like you will always be amusing to me especially when you yahoo's start posting in Black sites...

Dumb fucks...lol,lol,lol

Steven Augustine said...

@Thrasher:


Is that your coherent argument?

CNu said...

rotflmbao...,

forget about kneegrow conservatives.

dis isht hurr more entertaining than the barbershop on payday!!!

Thrasher said...

Yep since your cut and paste chatter class narrative was not coherent .Intellectual cowards like you whose depth is infused with cut and paste chatter class topics from hollow white progressive sites.

Understand this truth every time I am on this site and your closet cracker ass is here I am going to crush you . You will learn never again to insult a Black man with lynching references .

Now deal with that in a coherent fashion you intellectual coward .

Thrasher said...

Nomad's disclaimer was a joke he claims to be neutral yet then he spits out an opinion WTF

Steven Augustine said...

@Thrasher:

Are you claiming, indirectly (since I cite Ms. McKinney as the authority on the position I take on this topic) that Cynthia McKinney developed her position on the topic of Libya from "hollow white progressive sites"?

Is Cynthia McKinney full of shit, or informed? If the former, explain. If the latter: that would make *you* full of shit.

Take your time.

Thrasher said...

I forgot to mention you don't know nothing about Cynthia if she removed her tit from your mouth you still would not recognize her... Lol lol

Steven Augustine said...

@Thrasher


Plenty of time to answer the questions. In fact, I prefer it if you take your time and say something that makes sense.

chaunceydevega said...

@All. Spirited debate is entertaining. But can folks please move beyond name calling and profanity.

CNu said...

wait for it, wait for it....,

any second now, we'll be treated to "the free black man" chicken dance.

nomad said...

Not neutral, just haven't followed the story closely. Therefore could possibly be persuaded away from my initial impression that BO had a hand in collapse of Lybia. It was targeted for overthrow by the American Empire before BO became POTUS. It fell on his watch. And Hillary Clinton was certainly none too displeased.

Thrasher said...

Nomad,

So now you're not neutral? Please make up your mind and stop flip flopping ....

makheru bradley said...

Libya's collapse had very little to do with BO—Thrasher

Between March 19-22, 2011, the US Navy fired 162 Tomahawk cruise missiles at Libyan air defenses.
Then again maybe those Tomahawks were fired by militants from Mars.

Thrasher must be visiting Earth from another planet. It was Barack Obama who was not satisfied with a simple “no-fly zone” over Libya. It was Obama who pushed for a UN resolution which would give NATO the latitude to wage a war of aggression against the Libyan Jamirihiya. It was Obama who called the bluff of David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy regarding this diabolical scheme. Barack Obama is the Butcher of Libya.

With regard to your pure speculation about Obama's role in the death of Kaddaffi you inserted this fiction so where are your proofs??--Thrasher

[U.S. officials say an American Predator drone took part in the airstrike that hit the convoy carrying ousted Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi. U.S. officials said the Predator fired on the convoy as it was fleeting Sirte, and French aircraft launched guided missiles. According to most accounts two vehicles in the convoy were hit. Qaddafi was wounded when captured, and later died. He had gunshot wounds to his head, chest and stomach.] -- MSNBC

Of course Obama had nothing to do with this and John Gotti was as innocent as the Virgin Mary.

He just happens to be wailing like a stuck pig because Blowback is a mother…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blt9_hy1di4

Sister McKinney's position is crystal clear.


http://www.claritypress.com/McKinney.html

E.C. 2 said...

Once again, Professor, you call out the anti-black colored coon-servatives for their ongoing Aunt Jemima Behavior/Uncle Ruckus Behavior, specifically attacking their own black race, their ongoing working against their own black race, their ongoing race hustling of anti-black racist sentiments and actions just so they can get paid cash and/or checks from racist white conservatives, and/or get the promise to get paid cash and/or checks from racist white conservatives, as well as to justify their own racist self-hatred for the fact that they are all black people instead of white people. They are screaming ouch because their white conservative slavemasters told them to say ouch. That's because they are all lacking the self-respect and racial pride to do so themselves.

As for the so-called "independent" thought that they and their masters claim they are expressing, the colored coon-servatives stopped thinking independently a long time ago. Being an anti-black colored coon-servatives means that you say, think, and do, what the racist white conservative slavemaster and/or the racist white conservative slavemistress tells you to say, think, and do, and then he, or she, or they, pays them, or promises to pay them, for the "privilege" of being their front Jemimas and Front Ruckuses. These coon-servatives by their own choice stopped thinking for themselves a long time ago, if they ever thought for themselves in the first place, that is.

Methinks that Project 21 got some extra buckets of fried chicken for their latest coon-servative minstrel performance for their transparent attack upon you. Hope they got some pieces of silver to go with it.

Steven Augustine said...

@Thrasher

"Cythnia is a Principled woman but also a fool often"

Cynthia McKinney was actually *in Libya*. Where were you? At a KKK rally. Impressive. I guess that epic story of yours will have to suffice in lieu of any actual facts on the topic of Libya... or anything resembling a thinking man's theories or arguments about NATO war crimes and AFRICOM and inconsequential stuff of that nature.

Cynthia McKinney is a hero and an actual Leader. You're a tragically under-informed bluffer who's mostly Late, Loud and Wrong. Slight difference between the two types, Greg.

You may now resume your battle for the hearts and minds of the world-influencing comment threads of WARN. But the cruelest part? You can ____ Obama's ____ all you want... you won't be getting a Xmas card!



"Lol".

makheru bradley said...

“Mediterranean Africans, Egyptians, have a multi-thousand year record of contempt for Black Africans. Just look at any Egyptian art from the ancient period, see how the "Nubians" are doing in the narrative. It's easy to pick them out, they're the Black ones, and usually they're the ones getting hit in the head with a war club.”

Periodically someone will come forth from the bowels of historical ignorance and remind me of what Dr. Clarke meant when he discussed the “Europeanization of human consciousness.”

What Egyptians are these with thousands of years of contempt for Afrikans and Nubians, the present day descendants of Arab invaders? Where is the documentation to validate these claims?

It’s certainly not evident in the images of Queen Tiye, the Nubian wife of Amenhotep III who was the mother of Ankhnaten, and grandmother of Tutankhamun.

http://wysinger.homestead.com/tiye5.html

It’s not evident in the Tomb of Seti I.

http://www.catchpenny.org/race.html

http://www.saveyourheritage.com/images/Seti.jpg

It’s not evident in the images from the magnificent Twenty-Fifth Dynasty of Ancient KMT.

http://wysinger.homestead.com/kingtaharqa.html

The long history of the Arab enslavement of Afrikans and Arab racism is another matter. Muammar Qaddafi was aware of this history and in the Green Book he demanded equal rights for all minorities in Libya. Black Libyans who lived in Tawergha and Afrikan immigrants lived peacefully in Libya until the Obama-led NATO forces and their al-Qaeda proxies destroyed the Jamahiriya government, thereby unleashing racists who have proceeded to lynch Black people in Libya.

You Wouldn't Want to be Black in the New Libya

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-

Thrasher said...

I love it when cowards cling to every word I post and then they even invoke my own language to try to make a point .

I will admit it makes me blush knowing my words, my low, my persona has that much power over people .lol,lol,

Steven Augustine said...

@Thrasher:

Uh-huh!

Thrasher said...

The long history of Arab racism is exactly the core of this topic his Green book was a worthless as a Dick and Jane ooloring book.

Dr.Clarke is a legend no need to drag him into this saga his work speaks to his iconic legacy yet this issue is not about ' Nubians'

Qaddafi toleratd the contempt of Black Folks in Libya the wide spread carnage against Black folks in Libya is proof of this deeply held inhumanity.

Apparently none of them read the green book to now observe you trying to link Obama to the historical contempt Libyans held or Black folks is insulting to us now in the Black Diaspora ..

Get out of archives and open your eyes there is much to see

fred c said...

Thanks for the links, Makheru B. Interesting stuff, but not new to me. The ancient Egyptians were certainly a mixed race people, but it would be a leap of faith to think that it made them a racially enlightened people. More likely they only thought in terms of "Egyptian" and "Non-Egyptian," with the former preferred and the later fit for subjugation only.

By the way, I am not particularly Euro-centric in my thinking, nor am I at all thrilled with Whiteness. On the Egypt issue, I just find it sad that some Black Americans feel the need to identify with Ancient Egyptian culture.

Contrary to the "limitless darkness and savagery" narrative of the enslavers, Black Africa in the remote past featured many and varied cultures that were advanced in their customs and organization. Read about the Congo basin before the Belgians got there. Highly developed rule of law; rules of commerce enabling trade of commodities over wide areas; property rights; and more.

African art! Be proud of that, ye Black Americans, and seek not solace in the self-aggrandizing culture of Ancient Egypt.

P.S. I'm still laughing at being characterized as a typical White Liberal running dog of the DNC. If only it were true! I'd be more prosperous.

chaunceydevega said...

@fred c. You already know what i think about that Afrocentric foolishness. Black Cleopatra, yeah right...and who would want to claim her unattractive behind?

Steven Augustine said...

@Fred

"On the Egypt issue, I just find it sad that some Black Americans feel the need to identify with Ancient Egyptian culture."

Don't find it "sad", learn a little more on the topic. You're unwittingly spreading propaganda that was designed to make North American Blacks feel as though they've been isolated/despised since the beginning of time. I know (or hope) you mean well... but take a step back and confront the unearned condescension in your "helpful" tone. You don't know any more than anyone reading this, obviously, so you're not in any position to help anyone... which makes you Thrasher's perfect sidekick. "lol lol lol" [fella needs a laugh-track]

If you're actually interested in scholarly alternative to the disinfo you're happily spreading... again: research the work of Cheikh Anta Diop. Or maybe you should start with Aimé Césaire. Anything to get you out of that North American boilerplate propaganda pit.

fred c said...

Better that we'd have stuck to the topic, but I promise this is my last word on the instant controversy.

C.A.Diop . . . an interesting man, but honestly he appears to offer as many problems as solutions. Sure, "sub-Saharan DNA component," like I said, "mixed race people." Interesting stuff, I'll read some more. What's the point? Black Americans (or sub-Saharan Africans) are great because of some imagined Egypt connection? No need of that, Black Americans are great, period.

Aime Cesaire . . . I admit that I'm a bit puzzled as to why you'd recommend him. I'm neither a fan of, nor a friend to, European colonialism or Hegelian White Supremacy. That much is obvious, I hope. I'd back him in the whole Negritude thing, much as Sartre did, as pure hell-raising.

But other than the fact that French language poetry in general is fun, what would I profit from studying Cesaire? Life is short, and so is money for books. (Yes, yes, the Internet. But do you trust it? I prefer books.) Is he going to change my mind about the unimportance of Egypt to the history, culture, and lavish accomplishments of Black Americans? Doesn't look like it.

Regarding Cesaire and Diop, don't forget too, that French is a mixed blessing intellectually. It's a fine language, expressive of emotion and ideas, but it does encourage in its adherents a certain wild fancy that can be quite unreasonable. Perhaps you suffer from it too?

Steven Augustine said...

@Fred

Anything that helps to estrange you from your built-in, conflicted sense of your stake in Black History is worth it. Reading the work of Uncompromised Black Intellectuals for long enough might even help to dilute a little of that thinly-veiled, deluded paternalism, bud!

But your bizarre swipe at French is Murrkkan to its core. Rather "wild fancies" than pig-ignorant Yankay smugness.

Enjoy your day,

SA

nomad said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
nomad said...

"Black Africa in the remote past featured many and varied cultures that were advanced in their customs and organization."

Drop that way of thinking. Black Africa WAS the origin of advanced culture. At the time of the ancient Egyptians and before, the "limitless darkness and savagery" was further north.

nomad said...

@CD
Cut Cleo some slack. She wasn't *that* bad.
http://0.tqn.com/d/ancienthistory/1/G/U/E/Cleopatra.gif

Steven Augustine said...

@Nomad

What's interesting is how, pretty much at the same time "whiteness" was broadening its base (in the early 20th century) and becoming suddenly lots more inclusive... admitting even Jews, the Irish, South Americans, Italians, Arabs and some East Indians, et al, to what was once a strictly WASPy and/or Scandinavian club... they were balkanizing, gerrymandering and problematizing Blacks with color-and-feature-coded hierarchies, scattering them into a thousand supposedly unrelated tribes! Connecting North American Blacks with, eg, Egypt, is not a matter of borrowing false glamor... the point is widening the base (again) and treating history as something more than a written apologia (and serf-twisting-propaganda) for the Warlords putting it in our classrooms.

If Polish, Spanish, Israeli and Icelandic tourists in a crowd of darker faces in a Micky D's in Brooklyn can all feel "white", there's something wrong with the notion of "Sub-Saharan Blacks" being quarantined on an ideo-biological island in Fred's brainwashed imagination.

Further: until the Eugenicists re-write the accepted fact that every human population on Earth derives from a point (or points) in Africa, we really need to put to rest the notion that any Black Populations that feature lighter skin or "sharper" features got them, by default, from Europeans! Because it's the *converse*. Simple set theory should make that obvious.

And why should it matter... except that it's True?

Steven Augustine said...

@Thrasher

Yes, you *crushed* me, "ouch!", and I in no way exposed you as a semi-literate street-corner boomer of the old school, with no solid facts, original ideas or coherent theories to call your own! You're a stone-cold wizard with that "lol lol lol", man!

Keep at it, I need the chuckles!

Steven Augustine said...

@Thrasher

Okay pops!

nomad said...

"C.A.Diop . . . an interesting man, but honestly he appears to offer as many problems as solutions."

The problem Diop raised was to reveal the racism upon which the Western history of Africa was founded. Basically European historians worked on the presumption that subsaharan Africans (Negroes) were too primitive to develop high culture so that where ever archaeological discoveries uncovered evidence of advanced culture in the subcontinent it was presumed to have come from somewhere else. Somewhere whiter, particularly Egypt. They literally believed that culture came to Negroes through a hypothetical white people with dark skin known as Hamites. Diop demolished that hypothesis and showed that the evidence revealed just the reverse. Rather than Egypt having a civilizing influence on Nubia, black Nubia's culture predated Egypt and it is in Nubia that the origins of Egypt is found. Nubia was to Egypt what England is to America.

nomad said...

@CD
"@fred c. You already know what i think about that Afrocentric foolishness."
Somehow I missed your take on Afrocentrism. Care to elaborate?

makheru bradley said...

On the Egypt issue, I just find it sad that some Black Americans feel the need to identify with Ancient Egyptian culture.—Fred

Most people with a vested interest in the “Europeanization of human consciousness” not only found that identity sad, they launched a corporate-funded propaganda war against the scholarship of Diop, Massey, Jackson, Williams, Ben—Jochannan, Clarke, Van Sertima, Carruthers, Hilliard, Obenga, and everyone else articulating the Afrikan origin of civilization.

Technically speaking there is no such thing as Ancient Egypt. The word Egypt cannot be found in the pharaonic language. The proper name is KMT or Kemet with vowels inserted.

Black Cleopatra, yeah right...CDV

There were at least seven Cleopatra’s. None of them, including Cleopatra VII- famous for her relationships with Julius Caesar and Antony, had anything to do with the Afrikan origin of civilization.

chaunceydevega said...

@nomad. my take has been that we as black americans do not need to make up fictive histories of glorious mother africa and egyptian "black" kings and queens to validate ourselves. we are/created modernity here in the black atlantic. as a black american i have no interest in fetishizing a people who sold us into slavery and in the present, especially in the u.s. with the "ethnicization" of blackness, feel no real connection to us.

i am a proud black american who does not have fever dreams of a mythologized black african past. others may need such psychological pills to strengthen them against eurocentrism and white supremacy. i went through that phase in high school and for a year in college before i came to my senses. each to his own however.

Steven Augustine said...

"we are/created modernity here in the black atlantic."

Now why is it that you never hear "whites" make bizarre claims like that? Are we created from test tubes?

chaunceydevega said...

@Steve. I have a few in my closet. That is not a bizarre claim. I will modify it slightly, the black atlantic and the people who were created by it were the first truly "modern" or perhaps even "post-modern" people. I agree with Gilroy there.

from the processes of colonialism, imperialism, cultural syncretism, creolization and mixing, to the sheer mass movement of peoples and how black folks moved the cultures they created in those spaces in the "new world" and europe forward, i would say the claim is spot on.

never mind the black american contributions to american culture, government, art, etc. without black folks america could certainly be a far less evolved--and interesting place--we gave so much, including our lives and blood, and what did we get in return?

that isn't afrocentric dogma by the way just a well considered read of the historiography.

fred c said...

Makharu . . . So now I have a "vested interest in the Europeanization of human consciousness?" Oy, vey ist mir! No, I don't think so.

Of course civilization has African origins. I couldn't agree more.

Professor . . . Right fucking on.

Nomad . . . Thank you, again we are on exactly the same page. Didn't I just say that sub-Saharan Africa had highly developed cultures? Did I forget to add "self-generated," or "of long standing?" We all stem from that cradle, and each of us, in our variety. Because you think it is worthwhile, I'll be reading more about Prof. Diop's work. Thank you.

Steven . . . (Redacted, to save the Professor the trouble.)

Steven Augustine said...

CDV:

Every modern human population not only comes from somewhere, and from others, but is connected to other modern populations. There's obviously political and psychological power in understanding that... and there's obvious political and psychological power in subjugating a population my convincing them that it isn't so in *their* particular case.

I have no patience for that "We were Kings" nonsense! ("We were Serfs!" is a more reasonable declaration for almost everyone on the planet to make). But that's not the case that a few of us have hijacked this thread to make...! Laugh

Steven Augustine said...

erratum:

"and there's obvious political and psychological power in subjugating a population BY convincing them that it isn't so in *their* particular case"

Steven Augustine said...

"Because you think it is worthwhile, I'll be reading more about Prof. Diop's work. Thank you"

Fred: I'm so hurt. Are you a twelve-year-old girl? Is this Junior High? Just checking!

chaunceydevega said...

@steve. your general claim is true, i.e. people come from somewhere; that does not over-ride the specific claim about the black atlantic and its particular impact on modernity.

like i said, if you hadn't read it, check out gilroy's the black atlantic. it really is a classic, the chapter on global cultural flows really stands out.

Thrasher said...

Fred,

Awesome posts!!!

Steven Augustine said...

CdV:

"never mind the black american contributions to american culture, government, art, etc. without black folks america could certainly be a far less evolved--and interesting place--we gave so much, including our lives and blood, and what did we get in return?"

What we got: blasted with saturation propaganda that bamboozles us into thinking that our only possible *authentic* relevance, meaning and context are North American, Urban and Pop. We have ZERO sense of the Global... we're like children locked in the attic, fed through a slot through the door, who think of ourselves as orphans, without a family, when, in fact, the house is full of family, our parents are very much alive, and it's the Psychotic who deceives us who pretends to want to help! Let's not forget how much influence the Psychotic has on everyone in the house... it's not just the "orphans" who are deceived.

But, yes, of course, the Modernity thing; I've discussed it many times, it's a special case, the cultural paradoxes intrinsic to it are rich and cool.

But how much clearer must it be that all that's not quite enough? Because, am I imagining this, or aren't we sort of "fucked" at the moment?

We belong to a Family (and I don't mean that nebulous "Family of Man") of Billions. But we think of ourselves as 20-30 million, tops. "Whites" make a big deal about being eventually out-bred and understandably so... it's not just Racism that makes "Whites" fear becoming a literal minority; why do you think they puffed their numbers in the early part of the 20th century? Why do you think that other Modernist minority, "Jews", were happy to sneak in under the Big Tent of Whiteness? Egalitarian inspiration? No: Being a minority comes with serious, bloody consequences on a Darwinian playing field.

So why are we so complacent about being not even a real minority but a *psychosomatic* one?

Sidebar: the President descends not from the "Modernity" you mention but, in half, from "whites" and, in half, from the Past you seem to think has nothing to do with Us. Why do you claim him?

nomad said...

"Didn't I just say that sub-Saharan Africa had highly developed cultures?"

Well, not exactly:
"Black Africa in the remote past featured many and varied cultures that were advanced in their customs and organization."

This statement presumes they existed among other advanced cultures. They didn't. They were the first.

nomad said...

@makheru bradley
Where is your blog, dude?

Steven Augustine said...



Yeah, and:

"Black Africa in the remote past featured many and varied cultures that were advanced in their customs and organization."

Thanks for that, Fred, because we never got to the 8th grade, so we missed that patronizing little pat on the back the first time around! Snicker.

Thrasher said...

Nomad

Good point.

Steven Augustine said...

CdV:

PS that Gilroy ref dates you and provides a clue to your identity, I think. I'm sure you're not Colson Whitehead but...

nomad said...

The King and Queens claim to me is true in its symbolism. It means we did not come from slaves. Before there were white kingdoms, there were black kingdoms. There was a time when black skin did not automatic equate to slavery. That is important foundational knowledge for all black people and for kids in particular. Did you know, for example that black artists in what is now Nigeria (Benin) mastered naturalistic sculpture before the artists of the European Renaissance? Such history should be widely known. We were not only kings and queens we were also something far far better: artists. Our history is not bounded by the borders of the United States.

CNu said...

lol, afro-trekkies need to kick it up a notch and start their own moneymaking versions of renfests and comicons.

call'em afrikons!

fat, lonely white-wymyn all over the place would turn out in droves to commune with their proud nubian brothers (oh yeah, and sisters)

instead of fried dough and smoked turkey legs, mebbe a new concession on cassava and jerk chicken could be used to establish a vital new cultural infotainment baseline? Aseh, aseh...,

really dough, I have cherished my afropositive bredren and sistern for 22 years since they kept me socially and mentally entertained in the otherwise barren hinterlands of Kansas. Been active with their KC cousins for approximately seven years.

warned them that they were too far behind the cultural and technological relevance curve two years ago, and that if they wanted my help, and if they wanted to survive and thrive, they'd have to do exactly what I told them to do and that my requirements and expectations were non-negotiable.

ideological and interpersonal arrogance kept them from taking the assistance they desperately needed. so I watched them get faded and fold and only after losing their flagship school this year did they finally humble themselves and formally seek out the counsel and assistance I freely offered them two years ago.

we'll see what my cousins are capable of assimilating and doing beginning next wednesday evening. should be an interesting ride starting with the non-negotiable fact that I'm never gonna call anybody a gottdayyum nana or baba up in this muhuggah jes cause these arrogant individuals are caught up in afro-trekkie vapors.

take off the costumes and contrived personae, roll up your sleeves and prepare to learn and do a new thing or two - if not - prepare to become even more culturally irrelevant and die off.

kneegrow conservatives coming up fast and competing hard with afro-trekkies for black outlier interest, enthusiasm and support.

CNu said...

Our history is not bounded by the borders of the United States.

Our future IS bounded by the borders of our technical and technological prowess. More emphasis must be placed on this than on ephemeral history, plastic arts, and ideological and cultural conformity.

chaunceydevega said...

@cnu. makes one wonder what happens with transhumanism and the singularity arrive. that changes all of this.

you are spot on regarding the interracial dynamics of trek at the cons by the way.

@steve. "Sidebar: the President descends not from the "Modernity" you mention but, in half, from "whites" and, in half, from the Past you seem to think has nothing to do with Us. Why do you claim him?"

creolization and the cultural hybridity of black folks in the americas and the black atlantic are central to claims about our unique relationship to modernity.

as you know race is a fiction and a true lie. it remains true nonetheless. obama is black. he identifies as a black american. by that silly mixed race tragic mulatto want to put a biracial category on the census want to be racial middlemen and buffer race nonsense there are no "black people" in this country.

i don't play that game with the racial bureaucracy.

and really, all this obama is half-white nonsense is a desperate exhalation of aggrieved and pathetic whiteness that can't let there be a black president. if dude were a cab driver, a brother on the block, or inmate no one would be looking for "complexity" and obama's white mother as a way of denying his blackness.

nomad said...

Back to Obama, as prob should be.
It ain't what he is that's the problem. It's what he do.

Steven Augustine said...

"@cnu. makes one wonder what happens with transhumanism and the singularity arrive. that changes all of this."

Relax, CdV, despite the hype, we are nowhere near it. My closest friend is struggling to wrap up his PhD thesis in a field that had him hanging out in nano-technology labs most of the summer, and, on one level, things haven't progressed *that* much since the days of Paracelsus, apparently! Laugh.

But when it *does* come, the meaning of the word "injustice"... aka, immortality (or super-longevity) for some, a quick trip around existence for the rest... will take on a power we've never known. "Race" won't mean a thing.

Re: Obama: I care not that he's a mutt; I'm a mutt; that wasn't my point. But if you can claim *him* as part of your idea of a Diaspora, why not...? Etc.

Steven Augustine said...

@nomad

"Back to Obama, as prob should be.
It ain't what he is that's the problem. It's what he do."

Agreed. It's what he is structurally incapable of *not* doing by occupying the office. The Office requires a figurehead, not an architect.

Thrasher said...

CD

Going to a event tonite here in DC with the Black Elites I expect MD to be there I won't mention you nor WARN this time... Lol lol

I will however make fun of Black folks hiding in closets, behind masks and alias full of chatter .... Lol lol

Steven Augustine said...

@Thrasher

"Going to a event tonite here in DC with the Black Elites..."

Will you be checking the various glove compartments for "change" while you park their rides?

CNu said...

makes one wonder what happens with transhumanism and the singularity arrive. that changes all of this.

old fashioned transgenic and recombinant methods were up to the task of engendering reproductively viable hybrids generation(s) ago. I believe you should take it for granted that those already exist in our midst, but are mostly indistinguishable from you quotidian humans.

As far as a singularity goes, don't really believe it, though the infinite room at the bottom (Feynman 1955) is filling up rather nicely, while genuinely advanced genetic engineering is producing 700 terrabyte data stores in less than a gram of protein. Craig Venter and George Church are initiating a new Moore's Law type explosion in the field of synthetic genomics, no telling where that vastly more advanced endeavor will end.

makheru bradley said...

Lol@CNu... All of that “cultural and technological relevance” didn’t enable you to see through the farce that Obama was in 2008.

Since KCPS still offers Afrikan-centered education you still have time to take a few classes before November 6.

[For nearly 10 years the Kansas City Public Schools (KCPS) has been proud to offer African-centered education opportunities to its students. KCPS is excited to keep this important program alive and growing for the 2012-2013 school year through its next incarnation – the African-Centered College Preparatory Academy.]

makheru bradley said...

My take has been that we as black americans do not need to make up fictive histories of glorious mother africa and egyptian "black" kings and queens to validate ourselves.-- CDV

CDV please provide an example of fictive history and cite the source.

We are/created modernity here in the black atlantic.—CDV

I’ve studied the seasoning process and creolization, but I’m not familiar with this modernity/black Atlantic argument. It appears to be somewhat similar to Jesse Jackson’s New People theory: we are products of Afrikan roots and American brutes. We’re a new people.

A group of us got on Jesse so hard on night in the AU Center for pushing that line that he came down off the stage to confront us. Young Jesse was a physically imposing figure, but we didn’t give a flying flip. We kept going to his azz. Jesse at least recognized Afrikan roots. Does this black Atlantic model recognize Afrikan roots or does it start somewhere in the Atlantic, e.g. along the Treaty of Tordesillas line?

chaunceydevega said...

@mb. check gilroy. myths? black cleopatra. not. black egypt. not--they were a multiracial society--allowing for the nubian period--and such formulations depend on imposing modern understandings of race back to the past, all sorts of "black" "african" inventions that simply were not. bernal's black athena was more right than wrong despite what i thought in college when first reading it.

There is a meta narrative here too where black radicals in the 1960s onward created all these fictions about mother Africa that Africans themselves rejected as agitprop crap.

Steven Augustine said...

Speaking of Jesse Jackson... I don't think Dick Gregory is always right, but some of his theories are fairly solid:

GO to 4:58

and THIS

Steven Augustine said...

"Our history is not bounded by the borders of the United States."

Absolutely! And neither is our Family, with its Billion members.

My problem with the Kings and Queens thing is that it doesn't make sense, because 1) every Kingdom features one King (or dynasties of Kings) and lots and lots of not-Kings; we can't all be directly related to the Kings. 2) Just about everyone on Earth can claim to descend, indirectly, from many minor kingdoms, at least, and a few primeval Ur Kingdoms... it can't be exclusive to Blacks, though there are obviously Blacks among us who can claim direct Royal lineage... from African Kings (as well as Charlemagne! laugh). 3) "We" weren't Kings, *We* are *here* 4) GW Bush is descended from aristocratic bloodlines of Europe and it doesn't make him less of a lizard.

But I get the Symbolism angle!

I'd just rather hear teens say something specific about, eg, the "lost wax process" than "We were Kings!" which, I feel, sounds like whoever is saying it has a chip on her/his shoulder and impresses no one.

One last thing I'd like to point to is the sly way that "debunkers" of Pan-African History use "slavery" as some kind of patronizing (I'm looking at you, Fred) trump card to divide Africa into the three pseudo-realms of "African-Africa", "The Africa Whites Generally Admire" and "Misc. Africa".

Slavery was at the heart of the economies of most (if not all) Empires of the "Ancient World" (and, with a few tweaks, the current world, too). The fact of Africans enslaving other Africans does not draw a fundamental "racial" distinction between various Africans any more than proto-Europeans enslaving other proto-Europeans is any way to claim a categorical "racial" distinction, with *modern hindsight*, between Germans, Greeks and, say, Jews.

In fact, Germans enslaving German Jews less than a hundred years ago is no argument that Jews can't also be Europeans, or vice versa, yes?

The "fact of slavery as proof that Egypt wasn't African" angle is a non sequitur I've been hearing from "whites" (and a few "non-whites") for thirty-five years. It didn't make sense when I first heard it and it still doesn't make sense now.

CNu said...

Lol@CNu... All of that “cultural and technological relevance” didn’t enable you to see through the farce that Obama was in 2008.

Don't take the death of your hobby enthusiasms so personally Bro. Makheru. Face facts, nobody not alive in 1970 is interested in the afro-trekkie cultural package.

As for the schools business, hollar at your peeps in ACETI/NBUF and ask somebody whether what's going on there now bears any relationship whatsoever to what was going on there last year and for 25 years previously.

The babas and the nanas have lost absolutely everything and their vehicle for trying to perpetuate their hobby enthusiasms and project these into the future has been taken away from them once and for all.

Kind of sad, but predictable given their age, arrogance, and cultural and technological incompetence.

CNu said...

There is a meta narrative here too where black radicals in the 1960s onward created all these fictions about mother Africa that Africans themselves rejected as agitprop crap.

There is a meta narrative here about folks who don't know how to do very much and aren't particularly interesting or useful but who adapt by making up or borrowing a whole gank of hokum and peddling that infotainment package as though it were a useful and meaningful cultural package.

There are institutionally approved and funded cultural packages of the types sponsored in race studies programs in colleges and universities, and then there are 50 page book man, street corner, essential oils, astrological, and kente cloth programs constructed and peddled ad hoc in order to make ends. Errbody gotta have a hobby, errbody gotta have a hustle - neither should be confused with useful and meaningful work, however.

CNu said...

lol, the kneegrow conservative is a third variation on the make/borrow cultural package hustle noted above..., {they just funded by the Knights of Nordica is all}

Steven Augustine said...

"Errbody gotta have a hobby, errbody gotta have a hustle - neither should be confused with useful and meaningful work, however."

On the leveling plane of the comment field, we'll all have to take each other's word for how "important" and "meaningful" our respective work is. But I, for one, am entirely happy to earn a living doing ultimately unimportant work that I enjoy, answering to no "boss", with the luxury of turning down projects I have no interest in. Fantastic Health Coverage, too.

I'm just here to offer my opinion with as much clarity as I can muster. I'm a speck of no particular significance and wouldn't have it any other way... as long as I'm a happy speck and a non-malignant one and my Wife and Child are happy, too.

The problem of Ego on the Comment Plane is nothing to *worry* about (because we are all, after all, just "talking") but it does affect the output... too much of which is clogged with boasts and bluffing and adolescent posturing.

20% of what you write is quite interesting, CnU... and I'm happy that you've cut down on the Negrophobic Tourette's... but claiming (by implication) to be "important" in a comment thread does not achieve the desired effect.

Is commenting itself even "Useful"? I think it's more of a hobby... a useful time-killer. And, well, it's useful to CdV, of course (whether or not he can help get the Manchurian figurehead, BHO, reelected).

CNu said...

the "desired effect" is to shock folks out of the self-comforting lies they tell themselves and tell to others.

what is important is the construction of fit and powerfully self-perpetuating cultural packages.

everything else is merely conversation...,

fred c said...

In sum, I think that I have been handled roughly herein. But my journey is not complete, and if I'm not perfect yet, well, it's no surprise to me.

In my defense I would say, I'm no academic, but rather an artist of life. And as the Great Man said (Alfred Jarre): "when the expression of an artist collides with the mind of a beholder, and produces a dull thud, it remains to be established which of the two is at fault."

Steven Augustine said...

"the "desired effect" is to shock folks out of the self-comforting lies they tell themselves and tell to others."

I can see that point... I just think it usually takes something more catastrophic (like a serious prison sentence or a "cancer" diagnosis) to affect that kind of psychological change.

"everything else is merely conversation..."

On a comment thread, *everything* is conversation... full stop.

CNu said...

I just think it usually takes something more catastrophic (like a serious prison sentence or a "cancer" diagnosis) to affect that kind of psychological change.

lol, surprising how much mileage I've logged intermittently flossing my teeth with an unexpected eruption of "JIGGABOO".

for the deep-sleeping delusional - who dishonestly substitute words for deeds - a little melanic cybonic eruption is like a nice, short, sharp shock to the head.

Steven Augustine said...

... NiggaRoshi style...? (bows)

nomad said...

"Face facts, nobody not alive in 1970 is interested in the afro-trekkie cultural package."

And a sad fact it is too. We need to cure ourselves of this amnesia. Lessee now, what happens when you forget the past? ...what happens?....Gimme a minute...

CNu said...

And a sad fact it is too. We need to cure ourselves of this amnesia.

No.

Y'all need to cure yourselves of that nostalgia and become clear-eyed in the present moment.

You and I are a generation removed from one another, so what I witnessed and experienced as a child, you witnessed and experienced as a young adult. (So also Bro. Makheru - so also my "elders" here in KC still wedded to their collapsing afrocentric institutions and enterprises.)

I believe that that makes a world of difference in terms of our priorities and allegiances.

As a literal child of the late 60's/early 70's - I have fond recollections as a participant in black nationalist and black arts programs - but my recollections are of the processes and programs in which I participated, not of processes and programs which I authored.

I have no proprietary vesting in those programs or deliverables - I AM one of its deliverables - as also a very strong and highly dispersed and accomplished number of my peers - my man Cobb is a prime exemple.

But here's the thing, particularly true of the afrocentric and nationalist forbears who have embraced an elder-centric hierarchy and scheme of what works, with notions of what works still firmly rooted in the early 1970's.

The old-heads don't have the skills to operate and engage in 2012, and they're not ready to cede responsibility and authority to their heirs. On a most fundamental level, this is why they now struggle and fail.

It's not for the lack of brick and mortar social networks, it's for the unwillingness to pass on the mantle of responsibility and authority...,

Steven Augustine said...

Let us sing of babies and bathwater...!

I get your point about the corny futility of the Afro-isms of the '70s... I saw it all up close: my father had a closet full of dashikis *and* a hand-carved mojo; he ran a "revolutionary" art collective, he even moved to Liberia for a few years (the cannibal militia was somewhat of a drawback)... and Kwanza is, by far, the most embarrassing idea to come out of COINTELPRO (worse even than the Black Panther coloring book).

Still, I don't see why there can't be a steampunk-type fusion between the Old Heads (who rightly consider a living connection to Africa to be of strategic psycho-political value) AND the pomo boho nova-Negroes with coding skills (and the uncanny ability to *almost* see post-racially, an important skill for the future). Why the Either/Or?

"It's not for the lack of brick and mortar social networks, it's for the unwillingness to pass on the mantle of responsibility and authority...,"

I can't imagine any Responsibility/Authority in America that is more ripe for the taking.

CNu said...

The old-heads have to willingly cede it and support the next generation, it's called growth.

Taking it away from them will breed the type of cancerous resentment that got shining folks kilt in the 60's and 70's.

Then of course, there's the gatekeeping Boule slavecatchers to contend with too.

pomo boho nova-Negroes with coding skills

lol, jealous resentment underscoring why it's probably just better - and FAR FAR EASIER - to simply let useless arrogant muhuggahs fail and go the way of the dinosaur...,

Given the hyperabundant and utterly ridiculous encumbrances barring the door against black partisan synthesis, it's SOOO easy to see the appeal of kneegrow conservatism.

Probably why my man schuyler finally and harshly turned his back on the various and sundry strains of useless negro hokum

Thrasher said...

What a load of ego posturing chatter from a generation that is taking an ass kicking 24/7..

Academic types which is now suffocating WARN from CD's circular race narratives to the esoteric junk from SA to the silliness of CNu's insane babble are full of blather and nothing else.

I have zero belief this bandwidth inflated bandwidth of chatter class button heads really have any credibility in any venue.

Snarky rants and irrevelant data is what these yahoos manufacture I pity anyone who would lean on these chatter class closet masked men for anything of substance or advice In the real world.

I could have closed my eyes last night at the Black ruling event it was full of people like CD, CNu , SA types chests stuck out and not saying shit worth rembering WTF

Steven Augustine said...

"pomo boho nova-Negroes with coding skills"

I meant it as a compliment; you jump too quickly to those defensive conclusions. And you have not a CLUE as to the people I hang with. I refuse to let this become a skirmish! I need a break from flaming. Laugh

nomad said...


"Y'all need to cure yourselves of that nostalgia and become clear-eyed in the present moment."
This ain't nostalgia, young feller. It's not an either/or, past/present dichotomy. It's truth.

Steven Augustine said...

@Thrasher: come on, man. Give it a rest. We beat our chests and rattled the bars on the cage for a good long time... let's sit on the tires for a second.

Thrasher said...

Over bearing clerical types all knowing critics but hollow vessels when it comes to solutions.

I bet yahoo's like SA , CNu , and even CD are shrinking flowers in a situation and crisis . I would wager none of these chatter class genies have any presence ins group setting where decision making matters ...

I observed such a sea of impotent Black elites last evening from acadmiv types with credentials falling out of their irrevelant arses to corporate types experts in sound bites and being invisible to politicians pontificating on nothing

I understand why our communities are floundering and in decay we have a backward self centered bunch of ego driven nobodies in our way !!

Steven Augustine said...

"I bet yahoo's like SA , CNu , and even CD are shrinking flowers in a situation and crisis."

I've no desire to lead, or anything, but you haven't seen me in meatspace confrontations. "Shrinking violet" is something I've *never* been called; "asshole", yes... "arrogant dickhead", plenty of times! Laugh

nomad said...

@fred
"In sum, I think that I have been handled roughly herein."

I'm not trying to be rough. That just seems to be the currency of trade around here. Just making a point. As much as they talk about the "white racial frame" around here, I'm surprised I had to be the one to focus on. The reversal of what is now called "the white racial frame" was something I used to focus on in another life. The history I studied was in dire need of revision. So I revised it. I know the common perceptions whites and blacks alike have about African history. I respectfully disagree.

chaunceydevega said...

@Thrasher. So you went to an event as an employee, waitstaff, bartender, or what have you. The people there didn't want to interact with you in any other capacity than what you were employed in, you took offense, and are now in a foul mood?

Let's assume you went there as a guest, were you on a panel or a featured speaker? There is a problem, once more, with your narratives. You claim to be a living legend from the "D" that everyone knows, including Dyson who you were talking up a few days ago, and then you come back all pissy.

If you were such a legend and a "free black man" why were the folks there not bowing at your feet? Seeking your guidance? Throwing money at you?

Thrasher said...

CD,

As usual you are so easy to tease and get a reaction from...In reviewing your shameful lack of decorum and reactionary comments to my students I knew you had a petty streak in you.

Interesting now how you responded to my posts( I knew you and SA would take the bait)but then played dead when I point blank asked you why you deleted my posts....Such courage and integrity you have mask man..



You are truly becoming walking hypocrite on your own site. Now of course I don't visit your site to read yet another tired incarnation of your race chasing circular pulp on rare days you are a genius but now you are just a streak hitter.

I enjoy WARN inspite of you.I enjoy the banter of Fred, Invisible Man, Nomad, MB and others who continue to make WARN interesting and informative..


Yeap unlike you people know me and look forward to my counsel and perspectives not as a student compelled to listen to your tired ass in class ..

By narratives unlike your fiction and over wrought commentaries are real and based upon experiences chatter class types like you have wet dreams about...My activism has altered the lives of people at best you are an afternoon or evening diversion matter. This basic difference between you and me will probably take years for you to appreciate bu that is you problem not mine now.

But I understand your limitations you are an irrevlant academic type who casts no shadow in real time when shit really matters. You are not cashing big checks and from the people I met yesterday none of them know of you or have you on any short lists of consultants they would call or request for anything.

Yet I truly understand your handicapps I have encountered many inflated nobodies like you in my old age nevertheless you still have worthy value and intellectual capital. I would never kick you to the curb nor underestimate your genius. You are impressive in a designated bandwidth.

Smart guys brillant with word play but no balls or presence when reality happens outside of your hollow terrain is not just a shortcoming you have it is present in many venues I travel. Your are not alone.

Of course you would have been a perfect fit for the event I attended until someone ask you name of course.

You know that reset nonsense you and CNU mumble incoherently about I think you need one CD a self inspired RESET.

Oh yeah ..lol,lol,lol

Thrasher said...

SA,

For once your posts make sense..I am outta here enjoy the day ALL..

chaunceydevega said...

@Thrasher. I never made any claims to greatness unlike you. I don't claim legendary status in the D or anywhere else.

Your defensiveness is very revealing. You are engaged in an online ventriloquist game. We have long established that.

You are overreacting and projecting with all of your overwrought mess. I find you entertaining. Assuming you have done so much, observing you is offers a great example of why black community activism went off the rails into obsolescence years ago. If you are one of the shining lights then i really don't want to see what the rank and file and lumpen were like. I am surprised we got so far.

I want to know why you are so upset at these people you supposedly met at an event you were talking up your attendance at the other day. What was your role there? Employee or guest? What were you trying to hustle? How did the networking go?

Did you introduce yourself as free black man thrasher from the D and living legend and they looked at you like you were crazy?

You talk about changing lives and being a free black man who is known all over the country but you sound pretty hurt that no one kissed the ring.

Assuming they actually exist, can you tell me or others in plain terms what you have accomplished with your basement dwellers who you one day claim as students but then disavow when they act like feces throwing humanzee man apes?

I am here to learn. Please give us some guidance on your many exploits and what went down with the folks who did not want to dance to your jig at this meeting you supposedly went to?

Steven Augustine said...

and now... a little post-raciality...

just for fun

just for fun 2

Steven Augustine said...

just for fun3

just for fun 4

CNu said...

bears repeating;

observing you is offers a great example of why black community activism went off the rails into obsolescence years ago.

observing you is offers a great example of why black community activism went off the rails into obsolescence years ago.

observing you is offers a great example of why black community activism went off the rails into obsolescence years ago.


one such jiggaboo running his mouf in Kansas City single-handedly sent the african centered education collegium permanently into the toilet. Twenty-five years of institution building squandered by one ignorant negroe.

What were you trying to hustle? How did the networking go?

breath and britches, know-nothin, do-nothin, skinnin-and-grinnin, gottdayyum JIGGABOOS!!!

@SA

I meant it as a compliment; you jump too quickly to those defensive conclusions.

My bad, I throw down on a hair trigger basis. (worse today as I've spent the last several hours monitoring and beating off an attack on a cluster of critical systems)

Thrasher said...

CD
More fiction I never claimed to be a hero nor legend I have not lived in Detroit for years but you are the all knowing wizard behind the mask.

Truth teller not a defensive reactionary but your ego can't appreciate this truth.I never post under an alias like you at the event I was the voice of Detroit bureau chief .

Yep I am self employed free Black man will never apologize or run from my legacy. I have never abandoned my students all of them are credentialed and have meaningful lives in their communities . I give them the same counsel as my own children . One of them right now I'd running for state supreme court many are lawyers and educators , doctors and hard working people .

Black community activism has never left the building nor the streets classroom types like remain stuck in a bubble learning 3rd hand truths while writing clerical comments from the sidelines. .

Truth is I respect you but I also challenge and reject your views and will continue to. As I noted you matter in narrow bandwidth and that is good .

With regard to my agenda I am already creating that foundation here in DC . Soon my efforts will create a foundation here to provide blueprints fit the growth and development of our communities in urban venues across the country.

Of course I will will keep WARN posted now I must take SA's advice and get outta here but since I set another trap for you to bite I had to reply.

Out there 4 here

Greg

chaunceydevega said...

@Thrasher. still no answers. please share your insights about this great event that you went to and were summarily rejected at.

you do call yourself a legend. often. you mention detroit all of the damn time. stop playing.

trap? you are the one with his tongue stuck in a mousetrap. i find you entertaining.

re: your students. the poo throwing dwellers covered in shea butter who live in your basement and share your computer to get their names ups on these here Internets? Lawyers, doctors, elected officials? Them? My, how low standards have fallen in what were once skilled professions.

What is this foundation? I hope it is leaps and bounds ahead of the plane ideas stuff you were offering before. What is the plan? The funding? The agenda? Who is your target audience and public?

Steven Augustine said...

One More

makheru bradley said...

they were a multiracial society—CDV

What races were these? The people who level these charges have never been able to identify a single European who played any role in the development of Ancient KMT. Even Bernal admits that: “Egyptian civilization is clearly based on the rich Pre-dynastic cultures of Upper Egypt and Nubia, whose African origin is uncontested.” He postulates a Mesopotamian influence upon the dynasty established by Narmer, but that is not his focus. He does not present any evidence which refutes the research of Gerald Massey, Cheikh Anta, John G. Jackson and others.

such formulations depend on imposing modern understandings of race back to the past, all sorts of "black" "african" inventions that simply were not—CDV

Who needs modern understandings when we have the tomb of Seti I. Look at how the people of KMT depicted themselves and Nubians compared to others from outside of Afrika.

“Egypt was the cradle of the
mathematical arts.” – Aristotle (Metaphysics)

“Egypt was the first society in antiquity to extend the number by conceptualizing fractions whose numerator was equal to 1.” Theophile Obenga

Of course antiquarian Afrikans, being the inferior beings they were, could not possibly do this by themselves. They had to have some help from Asia or Europe. Who is really transporting modern ideas to antiquity?

these fictions about mother Africa that Africans themselves rejected as agitprop crap.—CDV

Nothing unusual there. I meet Afrikans every day who’ve never read a single word written by Diop, Dr. Ben, Van Sertima and Obenga.

makheru bradley said...

Don't take the death of your hobby enthusiasms so personally Bro. Makheru.—Cnu

The sad commentary of an otherwise intelligent brother whose ideas have never taken hold outside of the parameters of his own mind.

Face facts, nobody not alive in 1970 is interested in the afro-trekkie cultural package.—Cnu

Dayum, the students attending the Betty Shabazz International Charter School network in Chicago must be old as hayell.

makheru bradley said...

makheru bradley Where is your blog, dude?-- Nomad

I've thought about it several times, but I've never tried to start my own blog.

chaunceydevega said...

@Mb. The Egyptians and other civilizations in antiquity and even up till the 16th 17th centuries did not have an understanding of race as we do. Remember, those ideas are very, very new. They understood tribe, nation, in-group and out-group, and who the "barbarians" were, but ideas that a contemporary thinker reading back in order to substantiate some Afrocentric myth making fails on its priors, construct validity, and on how theories base on ideas in the present are helluva hard to read backward.

Of course, the Egyptians went through different time periods, there was a nubian phase, there was a moment where they were Mediterranean and more "roman"--the latter also a multiracial society too.

I also do not believe in the European Miracle Eurocentric crap. Don't misunderstand. I am all for demolishing fictions of white supremacy. I do not need to invent dreams of mother africa and black kings and queens (who sold us into slavery) in order to fill some psychological void. I get, intimately understand, how white supremacy created a fiction that black folks were a people without history.

I also understand the practical political work that myth making about mother Africa and other crap like Willie Lynch letters and other assorted foolishness can do to empower, albeit with an intellectual sugar high, people who have been colonized mentally.

I think the truth, with all of its complexity, is the greatest contributor to a healthy black body politic.

When white folks and others invested in eurocentrism come up with crap I intervene. When black folks come up with mother africa cleopatra was "black" (as though that counts for a hill of beans in the 2012) mess I intervene too.

Re: those schools. As long as the kids are learning useful skills and achieving I am happy. Just so long as they aren't teaching lies...or lies any worse than what passes as "education" these days.

Check out the book Afrotopia you would likely find it a good read with much to think through re: Afrocentrism.

Steven Augustine said...

"When black folks come up with mother africa cleopatra was "black" (as though that counts for a hill of beans in the 2012) mess I intervene too."

Come now, CdV.... that's the strawman you keep flogging on the topic. I don't see MB making any claims about a "black Cleopatra". And, obviously, no one on the continent of Africa 3,000 years ago conceptualized Race as we do now, but neither did anyone on the continent of Europe. But if Europeans and "Aryans" (and even Central and South Americans!) are all now retroactively White, let's try to keep Race Theory at least *slightly* consistent and claim the Africa of antiquity for Blackness. And please, can the post-Alfred-Rosenberg race experts out there explain to me how the One Drop Rule becomes void beyond a certain randomly-drawn line in the past? Egypt was "multi-racial" but the Huxtables were not?

"Nothing unusual there. I meet Afrikans every day who’ve never read a single word written by Diop, Dr. Ben, Van Sertima and Obenga."

Not to mention the Hutus and Tutsis (egged on by Belgians), who, despite rather explosive tribal differences, are either all Black or Race Theory is even more random than I always assumed.

nomad said...

"black kings and queens (who sold us into slavery)"

What an odd conjunction. The black kings and queens were primarily of an era before the Atlantic slave trade. By this time there was only one remaining African kingdom (Benin) and I have yet to hear that they engaged in selling slaves to whites. By the time of the Atlantic slave trade the centralized kingdoms had declined, which is why the Europeans were able to invade the subcontinent. It was the devolution into tribes that made Africa vulnerable to first Arab depredation and then European depredation. It wasn't kings and queens who sold "us" into slavery, it was competing tribes. If you want to lay that blame on African leaders, then lay it upon tribal chieftains.

nomad said...

"Tribal chieftains"
Today we call them gang leaders.

fred c said...

@Nomad

Thanks for the shout, and don't worry. We're okay. I think that I read you pretty well, and you don't annoy me even a little bit. Quite the opposite.

CNu said...

lol, the afro-trekkie gots a very hard row to hoe - not only to make his hobby enthusiasm culturally relevant, but also just to stave off racial "realists" very quick to point out why africoids ain't do nothin and cain't have nothin....,

makes that kneegrow conservative afro-saxon steez look better by the moment.

nomad said...

-stave off racial "realists"-
Glad you put that in quotations. I have another word for it.

CNu said...

Evidently, Onyango Obama wasn't having any of that afro-trekkie gas generations ago...., makes me wonder if the Betty Shabazz International Charter's are self-funding on bean pie sales, or if they're dependent on property taxes and federal funds as I was pondering last night how in the world will ACETI fund its operations going forward now that they've permanently shot themselves in the foot with the schools chartering authority.

CNu said...

Watching Chris Hayes guests talking about how the Chicago Public Schools is an exponentially larger fustercluck than the Kansas City Public Schools. Seems like it'll take a whole national chain of white fish and bean pie joints to pay for fixing what all's broken in Chicago - or mebbe just buying the Hon.Bro.Min another palatial mansion...,

nomad said...

Devolution. Where we're going with the collapse of empire, we have been before. Ancient Africa is the template for what's coming to America. All that will be left after the fall will be CNu's and other tribes.

I still can't recall what it was I was trying to remember. Now, what is it that happens when you forget the past? What is it, now?...It's right on the tip of my tongue...Gimme a minute....

CNu said...

CNu ain't want no part of a tribe. Tribes will get ruthlessly exploited like the Brutals in Zardoz, the tribes in Africa, and the 2nd/3rd line inheritors of the civil rights movement in America.

CNu exclusively interested in the stable formation of black Eternals and Exterminators...,

chaunceydevega said...

@nomad. chiefs or chieftains? kings or queens? same difference. there is a problem with your attempts to massage african complicity in the transatlantic slave trade. yes, you are correct that as the trade developed it became increasingly dangerous for europeans to enter Africa proper. they in turn used middlemen. europeans also incited conflict to increase their human supply. however, there were african kings/doms that were trading in black bodies and selling them to europeans. remember, there were documented examples of african royalty captured in battle or kidnapped and sold to the slavers.

people are people. we are naked apes. why the investment in painting some model of sub-saharan african exceptionalism when barbarism, exploitation, cruelty, and violence are pretty damn universal traits...regardless of melanin count?

CNu said...

people are people. we are naked apes

killer-apes to be precise...,

which of course compels us to interrogate the concept of kingship and its foundation in what - other than Sargon-like alpha psychotic primacy?

Less'n of course the fanciful notions of pharaonic theocracy and more conscious God-king hold true, but then, didn't that notion derive from the afrocentrically admired synarchist Schwaller de Lubicz Milosz, and wasn't Schwaller a founding member of les Veilleurs, (the Watchmen) notable for their origination of sharp, jodphur pants and riding boots as uniforms so influential on young Rudolph Hess and long predating Germany's Sturmabteilung?

CNu said...

Oh Lawd!!!!!

More trouble in glorious afrotopia - did Robert Mugabe really go in on rastas in particular and jamaican men in general?

makheru bradley said...

the afro-trekkie gots a very hard row to hoe—CNu

LOL—ever body got a tough row to hoe. My comrades and the young men we advise spent about 5 hours planting our fall urban garden yesterday.

to make his hobby enthusiasm culturally relevant,-- CNu

The difference here is a movement that resonates with thousands of people versus the ideas of an individual which are incarcerated by arrogance and condescending opinions of others whom he often views as obstacles to his progress, e.g. 2nd/3rd line inheritors of the civil rights movement. The brother needs to look into the mirror where he will find his enemy, i.e., his inability to create space within the minds of his targeted audience.

I agree Steven, I don’t know why CDV keeps pushing this black Cleopatra line. The Cleopatra’s emerge during the era of Greek colonialism in KMT. They are worthy of no more than a footnote in the history of Ancient KMT.

I happen to believe that the concept of Sankofa—historical recovery-- has value. As Marcus Garvey said, what human have done, human can do. This world is on a collision course with barbarism. Someone has to bring it back to civilization.

chaunceydevega said...

@mb. I keep "pushing" the black cleopatra line because so many fools believe it and when you ask those whose consciousness you/others are trying to liberate with the myth making variety of afrocentrism that is popular in many circles they will recite talking points like a Fox News watcher. The difference being some stuff about black kings and queens, and black cleopatra as opposed to Obama being a socialist not born in this country who hates America.

I have disdain for ignorance wherever I find it. As I said, we agree on quite a bit. Do check out Afrotopia.

CNu said...

The difference here is a movement that resonates with thousands of people versus the ideas of an individual which are incarcerated by arrogance and condescending opinions of others whom he often views as obstacles to his progress, e.g. 2nd/3rd line inheritors of the civil rights movement. The brother needs to look into the mirror where he will find his enemy, i.e., his inability to create space within the minds of his targeted audience.

rotflmbao..., the brother gone do what the brother gone do - whether he does it with a black partisan or a John Birch society cohort.

Such is the nature of the evolutionary impulse.

nomad said...

"CNu ain't want no part of a tribe."
In the words of the great sage of strut, "You cain't always get what you want." When technology vanishes and yo provisions run out and you running round killing squirrels with bow and arrow, you will be a tribe.

CNu said...

Nah..., during the peak of the last so-called dark age, after the fall of Rome, there were pockets of high-civilization.

This whole thing is not going to go away, it's just that the no longer profitable and therefore unsustainable mass of the thing is going to be dissolved.

You should familiarize yourself with the musings of the hypertiger.

http://hyptertiger.blogspot.com

nomad said...

I know. I mean the gummint knows whats coming and they ain't buildin them underground bunkers for nothing. Ever see the movie A Boy and His Dog? The scenario will probably be something like that. So between hunting forays watch out for those Screamers.

CNu said...

Did you see today's news on the Alcubierre drive?

Steven Augustine said...

@Nomad:

"Ever see the movie A Boy and His Dog?"

Sorry to go "off piste" here (though, this whole thread is already there, I guess) but if you're a Harlan Ellison fan... we should import a whole Ellison-centric chat ...

nomad said...

Harlan Ellison,eh? I knew it was based on a book. Didn't know who the author was. Going by the movie he must be a great writer. It's a movie I've only seen once but it made a great impression.

Steven Augustine said...

Movie not bad, book much better, but other Ellison works (the "New Wave" phase) much better... and with interesting swerves through the "post-racial" (via post-human). Don't think you can underestimate the importance of Sci Fi to certain segments of the oppressed ...!

nomad said...

Thanks. I have got to pay more attention to sci-fi literature (as opposed to the movies). Ellison seems a good place to start. I'll be looking for "New Wave". "Post-racial", you say? Sounds interesting.

nomad said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
nomad said...

@ CD

"@nomad. chiefs or chieftains? kings or queens? same difference."

Ah, yes. It's just semantics isn't it? I'm using the terms in special sense here. I suggested earlier that a chieftain was equivalent to a gang leader. That's basically what tribes are, glorified gangs; people held together as a group through ritual and clan kinship. The chieftain, in the sense that I'm using the word, reflects that type of ancestral authority. Though tribes can be large, their rituals rigidly enforced, the scope of tribal chieftain power is limited, especially in terms of the amount of land controlled. Kingdoms on the other hand cover vast amounts of territory and have a centralized authority. So those are the kings and queens I'm talking about. And as I said, the only thing that remotely resembled the kingdoms that existed before, Mali, Ghana and such, at the time of the slave trade was Benin. Well, maybe Yoruba, but at any rate these new age African kingdoms had declined in power, shadows of that earlier era. If a king doesn't have a kingdom, i.e., vast amounts of land control, he's a king in name only. Or king of something with no political power. Like King of Rock & Roll, or the King of Wrestling. Or the king of this or that town. Or the leader of this or that gang. Saying there is no difference between the two orders of kings is like saying there is no difference in the status of the president of the United States and the president of the PTA. Sure they're both "presidents", but come on. It's hardly the same thing. The difference between the two kinds of kings I'm talking about is clear. Call the two what you will, "old era African kings" and "new era African kings" maybe. Since that terminology can be confusing I simply say "kings" when referring to the former and "chieftains" the latter.

"there is a problem with your attempts to massage african complicity in the transatlantic slave trade."

I don't massage anyone's complicity in that abomination, not even African Americans.

"why the investment in painting some model of sub-saharan african exceptionalism when barbarism, exploitation, cruelty, and violence are pretty damn universal traits...regardless of melanin count?"

Who said anything about exceptionalism? I some men in ancient Africa created kingdoms. Why would anybody expect any different to happen? I mean, there is nothing about Africans, nothing inherent that would prohibit such a thing from happening, is there. Far from being exceptional, I would say the existence of these kingdoms is very ceptional. Very ceptional indeed.

nomad said...

Who said anything about exceptionalism? I *said* some men in ancient Africa created kingdoms.

CNu said...

were these kingdoms "pharaonic theocracies" a la schwaller de lubicz, or, simply chieftain-taxing psychopathocracies a la Alphonse Capone?

Steven Augustine said...

@nomad:

Seek out Ellison's short story "Catman" (I think it's in the collection "Approaching Oblivion"); also the "Dangerous Visions" anthologies for a terrific collection of "New Wave" (really: postmodernism before the movement took off in "literary fiction"). Also HE's "Deathbird Stories"

Steven Augustine said...

I can imagine an interesting, slightly fraught Utopia based on MB's and Nomad's and CnU's combined visions/methods/ skill-sets (with CdV running the post-apocalypse DMV... which will be all about pedal-or-wind-powered vehicles)... I can't see any single vision working on its own. Perhaps this is just the inevitable fractious chaos before the planning stage...

CNu said...

Devil's always in the details, specifically the detail of what happens after the plummet over Olduvai gorge when we come eyeball to eyeball with the fact that all the arable land in the U.S. is incapable of supporting more than 100 million people absent significant fossil-fuel inputs, inclusive of nitrogen fertilizers and petroleum-based insecticides.

The political and cultural "how-to" of getting from here to there is what will be the death of us all, particularly as our best trained, best educated and most capable remain relegated to the back seat while breath and britches hucksters shill status quo platitudes about an unattainable by-and-by...,

nomad said...

"were these kingdoms "pharaonic theocracies" a la schwaller de lubicz, or, simply chieftain-taxing psychopathocracies a la Alphonse Capone?"

I don't know. I didn't get very far into this study. I was technically an Africanist in grad school but my focus was elsewhere (African American art). But anyway, my working hypothesis was that these putative kingdoms had to have a high level of governmental sophistication. Centralized power over vast expanses of territory. They had enough power to hold together for hundreds of years, and presumably the military strength to defend against enemies. Were they good or bad? Well, they were empires. Nuff said. The Nubians, of course, were pharaonic. Or, rather, protopharaonic.

CNu said...

Are you familiar with de Lubicz conception of the pharaonic "theocracy" and the miraculous (utopian) level of civilization upon which that notion was founded?

de Lubicz books are difficult - to say the least. That said, few things tickle me more than hearing an afro-trekkie struggle with and attempt to pronounce a proto-nazi's conception of an ancient civilization whose artifacts are as poorly understood as pharaonic egypt's are..., however, Schwaller's concept of the "symbolique" is profoundly appealing.

I'm fairly certain most afro-trekkies don't have a particularly strong grasp of Schwallerian "symbolique" which is why you hear/read them blustering on about KMT as if that shit was saying something...,

If they did grasp what Schwaller was on about, you'd see them clamoring for cultures of competence which would serve as the indispensible building block for the yet much higher level of culture/civilization which Schwaller proposed prevailed in the Nile valley for millenia.

nomad said...

No, I had never heard of him. Very interesting though. Speaking from the perspective of a art historian, the achievements do border on the miraculous. I'm not sure what's meant by the term pharaonic "theocracy" but if Egypt don't qualify as cultural exceptionalism I don't know what does. My take is that Egypt was a culmination of what had been going on in the rest of Africa, particularly in the green Sahara; probably by way of Nubia. Egypt reigned continuously for thousands of years in the northeast corner. During this very long period other empires rose and fell on the subcontinent until the Middle Ages. These, separated by enormous distances from Egypt, may or may not have been offshoots of Egyptian culture. But, like I say, by the time of the slave trade, that era was over. Benin remained but it was a shadow of earlier kingdoms. What followed in the wake of the decline of centralized power in the subcontinent was tribalism.

CNu said...

You should check him out. Over a decade ago, when my studies of alchemy were at their most intense, I wrote an essay on this topic titled Conscious Language (which I republished at the blog) - it wasn't until a number of years later that I finally and conclusively figured out what was up with alchemy - but this was a bump on the road in my study of the subject, precipitated in largest measure by my study of de Lubicz.

Personally, I don't believe that Egypt was a purely African phenomenon, rather, I believe it was an evolutionary phenomenon which became stably situated for millenia in the Nile Valley.

Much as a similar evolutionary phenomenon would attempt to take hold in Andalusia in the 7th-10th centuries AD, only to be unseated and broken up into fragments by the franko-catholic abomination.

nomad said...

Thanks. I *have* to check him out. Meanwhile...

"Personally, I don't believe that Egypt was a purely African phenomenon, rather, I believe it was an evolutionary phenomenon which became stably situated for millenia in the Nile Valley."

Somethin was going on. Pyramids built to a degree of engineering perfection we in 21st C have yet to achieve. But what caught while looking at the art of the once green Sahara; there are some really strange images, whether you subscribe to the ancient astronaut theory or not. Either way you are left with these enigmatic representations of what life was like in this once lush environment. However you explain them, the fact of their existence indicate that there were some extraordinary activity taking place in this area, prior to the rise of Egypt. I suggest that this was the previous center of the evolutionary phenomenon you talk about. I suspect that this was the cradle of the protoEgyptian culture. And I suspect that reason it became a dessert through total depletion of its resources by the population or some manmade catastrophe. Well, it doesn't always have to be man made. God is good about shaking up things by throwing asteroids at us. But I suspect the Sahara dessert was a manmade catastrophe and people spread out to the east and south to escape dessertfication.

CNu said...

I would encourage you to look at it like this, our experience of consciousness consists for the most part of a fairly arbitrary flow of pictures and words, more of the latter than the former.

If we consider the words to be our "programming" and our programming determinative of our consciousness, then it is safe to say that we know almost nothing about pharaonic consciousness and by extension, nothing about pharaonic civilization, because that AE Wallace Budge set of 19th century translations is a straight up joke.

So it is a great - possibly the greatest human puzzle and mystery - all tantalizingly and conspicuously hidden in plain sight.

Schwaller's primary value lies in the alternative perspective he affords to the interpretation of the mystery, the simple fact of giving a different way of looking at the constructs, their signal qualities, and the underlying mode of consciousness (or difference in the underlying mode) required to account for all of that.

The longevity of this civilization, and its consistency over such an enormous span of "historical" time also gives us to know that we're looking at something distinctively and qualitatively different from contemporary human civilization.

While you know that I eschew the ancient astronaut theory, I am a firm believer in strata of human consciousness and the fact that there have long been "secret people" continuously active amongst these king-having killer-ape humanzees.

Co-sign the cause of the Sahara, the destruction of Indus Valley civilization, and much else which befell the humanzees during the the "Hyborian" era....,

CNu said...

Conscious Language II - sorry it didn't come up in the first search I linked.

nomad said...

Good stuff, CNu. I gotta check it out.