tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post9095080219506141231..comments2024-03-22T20:34:13.792-05:00Comments on Indomitable | The online home of Chauncey DeVega: Wrestling with Gifted Classes, Race, and Gender or Confronting the Honors CabalLady Zora, Chauncey DeVega, and Gordon Gartrellehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09138154899923808806noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-84869801640898675202010-06-05T12:45:30.152-05:002010-06-05T12:45:30.152-05:00I was placed in my school system's G&T pro...I was placed in my school system's G&T program in kindgergarten. I was tested by parental request telling my parents about a boy named Ronnie (can't believe I remember that!) who got to leave class to read extra books...I wanted to read extra books, too. My parents had no idea that program existed. I'm glad I was a self-motivator. Haha!<br /><br />I remained in G&T classes until I left my school system to attend a public residential high school 2.5 hours away from my home for my junior and senior years. I'm so thankful I urged my parents to get me tested. I wouldn't have had many of the opportunities I had if I hadn't been seen by teachers as "smart" and been in those classes.<br /><br />G&T classes only seemed to really make a difference in middle and high school. My English and math classes always covered more material in more depth than did those of folks who were not in those classes. They were also much more interesting. By the time I got to middle school (and this was the case throughout high school), out of 30 students in G&T, only two were black...myself (a black female) and a black male. While I enjoyed those classes because they were interesting and challenging, I hated, especially in high school, questioning racial assumptions made by the teacher (this occurred all the time in English) and being the "Black voice."<br /><br />I think the system is corrupt and needs to be changed. Why shouldn't all children have challenging, engaging classes? Why does it take being in G&T classes for black children to be seen as "smart" and worthy of time? Why the gender gap? (And I ask that as a graduate of Spelman College.) However, I know I would fight to get any children I may have in those classes. I know that the quality of instruction is better and that being "positively" tracked opens doors. I also know it's mainly a subjective and BS system. Again, I will fight for my future children because despite all of my education, I know that I will most likely be unable to afford the cost of private school (I live in Brooklyn). Ain't America great?<br /><br />I'm a long time reader. This is my first comment. Thank you for talking about this.TMAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-43405586059959508542010-06-03T23:46:51.161-05:002010-06-03T23:46:51.161-05:00Crap - sorry, link didn't work http://bit.ly/b...Crap - sorry, link didn't work <a href="http://bit.ly/bOxtRx" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/bOxtRx</a>OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalinhttp://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-52682636321743962882010-06-03T23:44:19.560-05:002010-06-03T23:44:19.560-05:00Also meant to add one of the joys of all-white pri...Also meant to add one of the joys of all-white private Christian high school, in which some bigot English teacher they'd hired away from bummfrack .ca decided to teach <i>Huck Finn</i>, and have the children read aloud from the text going around the room.<br /><br />My mother hit the roof when I came up with a "C" on the mid term and she stormed the dumb bigot teacher's office (both my parents were both ordained ministers and public school teachers, yes, with something to prove to the whites using their aquisition [me] as their perennial test case.) Dummkopf teacher told mother he felt I was "intimidated by the reading material", along the lines of "can't comprehend it". What none of the interested parties knew was that there was a lot more going on than a desire to prove my personal "merit" to a bunch of 15 year old dyed-in-the-wool bigots.<br /><br />There are a lot of "growin' up queer in Reagan-Era Prison Camp High" stories. Here are a couple more if anyone's interested http://bit.ly/bOxtRxOhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalinhttp://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-46461512230051354082010-06-03T23:33:10.278-05:002010-06-03T23:33:10.278-05:00Sounds familiar.
In my district, the way they got...Sounds familiar.<br /><br />In my district, the way they got around desegregation (the main "minority" was Latinos...we Blacks were few/far bt., and this was not implemented until 1978) was to resegregate the curriculum into some b.s. called "core" and "core plus". The "core plus", music, special ed, gifted, was what they decided to "bus". <br /><br />All kids like me, in music and so-called "gifted", knew, was that we got to escape regular schooling, once or twice a week.<br /><br />We all rode with the special ed/speech kids, so no one knew which of us were the next Dudamel, or had a stutter or were supposedly borderline geniuses. <br /><br />But it was completely counterintuitive to have The Black Child on a bus to the low-income part of the district, since we lived in the (overwhelmingly, suffocatingly, cross-burning) white suburban part. The entire setup, and the district's approach to desegregation was a joke, from start to finish.<br /><br />So was "gifted", since our teacher was going through a divorce and spent a lot of her time in the corner, crying.OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalinhttp://ohcrapihaveacrushonsarahpalin.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-45046241514271215882010-06-03T14:28:21.903-05:002010-06-03T14:28:21.903-05:00I went to all black schools for most of my schooli...I went to all black schools for most of my schooling. I was always top of my class.<br /><br />I only had the problems you discussed when attending schools with white folks. My intelligence and attitude didn't change, but the perceptions of that intelligence and attitude did. By the grace of God, I had strong parents who would not allow me to become a statistic, but many folks don't.Big Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02510881583909431416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-14237729949149495362010-06-02T23:20:06.704-05:002010-06-02T23:20:06.704-05:00I was the only kid placed in the "academicall...I was the only kid placed in the "academically talented" program in Kindergarten. The entrance test consisted of a teacher asking me to name a pickle.<br /><br />I had pretty good experiences with the program, actually. We did interesting science inquiry projects. All the kids should have had the same opportunities. I don't remember any teachers being hostile or condescending to me (but my parents were no nonsense and my dad was a teacher). <br /><br />My middle school gifted teacher was a very cool black woman who used to take me aside and have non-dumbed down political conversations with me. <br /><br />In high school, There were only two black kids in the Honors and AP classes: me and another black girl. Never had any real problems there that had to do with me being black.<br /><br />Working in the public school system today, however, I see a lot of suspect things going on with black kids and academic placement. This is one of the instances in which the boys get the short end of the stick.gordon gartrellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07453017150507048961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-5118409610416524332010-06-02T19:27:52.360-05:002010-06-02T19:27:52.360-05:00I had a rather similar experience growing up poor ...I had a rather similar experience growing up poor in a rich suburb. I had been placed in the TAG program early in Elementary school but my grades lagged behind because I was consistently bored reading books for school that I had finished two or three years prior. My fourth and fifth grade classes were combined and I was finally excelling in fourth grade with a teacher who was willing to invent an independent study program to keep me interested.<br /><br />However, when that teacher left on maternity leave during the beginning of fifth grade and we got a substitute for the first few months she could not comprehend why I was so misplaced. When my standardized tests placed me at the top of the class she insisted that the score was a fluke and demanded a retest. <br /><br />I ended up scoring higher the second time around, and needless to say my mom was furious. When the substitute was asked why she hadn't contacted my parents about any of this beforehand, the sub responded, "Well he just didn't look like a boy whose parents would care enough for me to call."Voluminously Yourshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13931943980772685875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-12092784478081049792010-06-02T15:26:45.267-05:002010-06-02T15:26:45.267-05:00I was always in gifted classes. For those of us wh...I was always in gifted classes. For those of us who were poor, minority and especially female it was a lifesaver and the best thing about school. It was the only time I had with teachers who understood giftedness and actually CARED about us and not just the rich white kids.They understood the pressures we were under to conform, the low expectations others had of us, that our boredom would be misconstrued as defiance, inattention, and lack of ability and they worked to keep us engaged.<br /><br />We were with peers who respected us, who didn't bully us, who<br /><br /><br />(FWIW, a significant percentage of my gifted program classmates grew up and left behind poverty, crappy 1 bedroom slum apartments,trailers etc and became well respected, and financially successful doctors.Some are senators and politicians. Me? I'm po',but I'm from an established upper middle class background and sort of went the bohemian rebel way because I didnt share the same hunger and fear of living in squalor that many classmates did.)<br /><br /><br />Re the gender disparity- Need more male teachers. Female teachers are IMO more likely to prefer quiet sedate girls to rowdy boys.Ninanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-91870972762274793722010-06-02T14:30:14.092-05:002010-06-02T14:30:14.092-05:00@Danielle: Old school with the graphing calculator...@Danielle: Old school with the graphing calculator! Damn--how many students don't even know how to use that...or a card catalog. Nice, to have you chime in. There is so much hurt and pain to these stories. I don't often share them, but these narratives really do serve a sharp critique to the myth of meritocracy.<br /><br />@Astra--True. But, what of the irony that girls keep boys behinds in school, but then men end up ruling the world? Am I the only befuddled by that?<br /><br />@Dr. Burp--great name by the way--great teachers can really move us or hinder us depending on the lottery. What can we do to change education so that more folks of the highest quality are moved to enter the profession?<br /><br />cdLady Zora, Chauncey DeVega, and Gordon Gartrellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09138154899923808806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-40229666705520983272010-06-02T12:24:07.323-05:002010-06-02T12:24:07.323-05:00Gifted Class saved my wife, a Creole Black growing...Gifted Class saved my wife, a Creole Black growing up in New Orleans. She still talks about the effect her Gifted Teacher had on her - it was the first time her intelligence received validation and encouragement.<br /><br />She's talked a lot about how our kids belong in "gifted" - I don't even like the term "gifted". At the magnet school my kids go to in a poorer, black, community in Omaha, they give out enough honor roll awards for enough things, that everybody managed to get one.<br /><br />I confess that I was thrilled when my 9 year old got a special award black for her reading skills signed by Pres. Obama. So yeah, in the abstract there is disdain for the system - but if my kids gets in the elite, I like it.<br /><br />I read Gatto when I was homeschooling - a useful man.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-37604346045592258232010-06-01T23:02:32.680-05:002010-06-01T23:02:32.680-05:00Yea this is very true boys are very far behind the...Yea this is very true boys are very far behind then girls even each school record inform us this thing... the reason behind it is girls are more reserve then boys ... and they catch oppurtunities more easily according to there skills and par...Astra Reedhttp://eduscipta.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-24262449449492107022010-06-01T16:15:50.851-05:002010-06-01T16:15:50.851-05:00I hate to admit it but I too have similar experien...I hate to admit it but I too have similar experiences all the way through my primary and secondary education. In elementary school I was kept out of gifted math and english until my attitude caught up with my teachers who realized I frequently fell asleep during lessons or complained about sitting through someone reading Stuart Little too slow for me.<br /><br />In high school I was a freshman in sophomore honors geometry and one of 3 blacks in the class. At the 4 1/2 week mark our teacher informed a few of the students (including myself) that she thought we would do much better academically if we moved down to regular geometry. I don't remember being offended or caring much about her suggestion but I went down to the regular geometry class which was filled with a lot more students who looked like me. Unfortunately, it took that math class up until the Christmas holiday to catch up to where my honors math class had been during the 4th week of school. Needless to say I got a lot of rest in that class and learned quite a few tricks and games on my TI-83 plus.Imani Asakohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03638288766250681157noreply@blogger.com