tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post8390103134221653551..comments2024-03-17T20:04:18.872-05:00Comments on Indomitable | The online home of Chauncey DeVega: Ebay Removes Holocaust "Memorabilia" From Its Website. Why Do They Continue to Sell Artifacts Related to the Enslavement of Black Americans?Lady Zora, Chauncey DeVega, and Gordon Gartrellehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09138154899923808806noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-48207651260059484172013-11-08T20:21:49.601-06:002013-11-08T20:21:49.601-06:00I would want to touch and hold those sacred object...I would want to touch and hold those sacred objects. I would also like to have them in my home. But, do I have with wisdom too? And they are all of our shared legacy; but simultaneously, some more than others. <br /><br /><br />Hell of a puzzle.chauncey devegahttp://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-42358363516938047292013-11-07T06:57:28.138-06:002013-11-07T06:57:28.138-06:00I remember about ten years ago stumbling into a st...I remember about ten years ago stumbling into a store in Kentucky, owned by a person of color, that sold items like manacles and tags. It was an overwhelming and powerful experience to be so close to something that for me, a white man, seems as remote as anything else I might read about in a history text book. I must have just stood there for 20 minutes looking silently. I don't even know if I moved. The owner of the store ended up standing next to me silently as well. The distant was no longer distant for me. Slavery was a tangible experience through those manacles that someone once was forced to wear -- and strangely (or not) the oppression our country engaged in became even more incomprehensible for me. <br /><br /><br /><br />I thought about buying the manacles. I thought about touching them and holding them. I ended up doing neither. It didn't feel like they were mine to touch or own. It felt like it would have been a violation to have done either. <br /><br /><br />15 years later I'm still thinking about that store and experience. I guess this is all just a long winded way of saying, as others have, that I can see the complicated ways in which items from the Holocaust or Slavery plantations might be powerful items/tools for people to make deep and transformative connections to a distant past. I also worry, and believe, that very few people would actually respect these objects for what they are: a piece of a human being that was discarded that should be honored, revered, and remembered.Jason Evan Mihalko, Psy.D.http://www.drjasonmihalko.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-89806715909833057662013-11-06T07:15:26.157-06:002013-11-06T07:15:26.157-06:00I also thought that many of these items would do f...I also thought that many of these items would do far more good to be in museums as well as college campuses, and even public schools. It would be great if our county had a collection of historic artifacts that social studies teachers can borrow for lessons and such.<br /><br />I have actually been to a flea market and seen a table full of these "Black Americana" items. I was a little shocked to see it sitting there. Recently though I looked up some items on eBay to prove a point with a conservative in an online argument. I told him this stuff still sells and he shrugged it off and said it wasn't that offensive and probably not common. I sent him a whole page of eBay listings.<br /><br />However, it also reminds me of a scene from Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison. An old black couple are getting evicted from their apartment in the middle of winter and there is a crowd of people watching as the sheriffs department throws out all of their stuff. The protagonist notices some of the 'black Americana' items and immediately feels a sense of shame and revulsion, but then turns that into compassion for these two poor souls who are getting thrown out onto the street. It was a pretty powerful scene in what became one of my favorite novels.Bryan Orteznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-79354580331293053962013-11-05T19:49:41.523-06:002013-11-05T19:49:41.523-06:00I may have overlooked it. I get notifications for ...I may have overlooked it. I get notifications for all the comments.chauncey devegahttp://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-45350774224664440412013-11-05T19:49:03.527-06:002013-11-05T19:49:03.527-06:00i hear you. One of the artifacts I would like to o...i hear you. One of the artifacts I would like to own would be a pair slave manacles or a slave tag. That would be powerful history, something real. Based on the far from scientific survey of posts and comments on the subject I think most are objects sought out by white racists. Have you ever seen the "notions" sold at fairs and swap meets--racist memorabilia, etc.?<br /><br /><br />I have. Enraging.chauncey devegahttp://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-44030753677281891812013-11-05T12:47:40.480-06:002013-11-05T12:47:40.480-06:00I can actually understand where a black American m...I can actually understand where a black American might want to own a slavery artifact just as a holocaust descendant might want to own a piece of that horrific event. I think humans are wired to have powerful tactile emotions. Holding the shackles and feeling their weight and how they cut into your skin as opposed to seeing it hang on the wall. Putting the arm band on your own arm, knowing it could easily have been you. Powerful stuff.<br /><br />I also think these artifacts should be in more museums and depicted in ways that show their full brutality and oppressive nature. That requires more than just an item sitting on a shelf.<br /><br />I'm completely gobsmacked at crap like this though: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Watermelon-Boy-Lawn-jockey-/161131155439<br /><br /><br /><br />Who invented the term "Black Americana"? Is this type of thing collected by African Americans? Or just wanna be plantation owners?DanFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-44545513219346386292013-11-05T12:12:26.437-06:002013-11-05T12:12:26.437-06:00Yes, you are right; I was thinking about the 1st A...Yes, you are right; I was thinking about the 1st Amendment, which is why the part about freedom was a little sarcastic. Still, I meant it half-seriously. There are things, like archaeological artifacts, whose trade is at least regulated, if not banned. but most outright bans on trade have to do with endangered animals, not things. <br /><br />Private pressure and shaming would probably be preferable to government sanction. I don't know how much pushback Ebay has had in this area. When I first started reading, I thought you were talking about racist household bric-a-brac, pottery and tchotchkes and suchlike. Ebay has plenty of that, too.OldPolarBearnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-69028410551405608462013-11-04T13:52:15.177-06:002013-11-04T13:52:15.177-06:00how kind. just trying to share interesting things ...how kind. just trying to share interesting things that come along. i don't know if any item should be illegal--that is a violation of free speech among other things. but, eBay is a private business and are free to set their own policies. I just wonder why some objects are unacceptable and others okay.chauncey devegahttp://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-25226049709524318992013-11-04T11:52:59.915-06:002013-11-04T11:52:59.915-06:00I learn so much from this blog. This was another t...I learn so much from this blog. This was another thing I really wasn't aware of (I guess I was vaguely aware of the existence of Nazi/Holocaust items), and in a way I can say I would have happily remained ignorant. But I am, in fact, glad that CDV brings these things to our attention.<br /><br />One thing I thought of was that maybe such things could be made illegal or very regulated to own, so that only bona fide museums, etc., could own or display them. There are restrictions on some kinds of cultural artifacts, art, etc. If not illegal to own, at least regulate trading in them. I suppose that would be objected to because FREEDOM!!!!<br /><br />If Ebay won't budge, maybe Anonymous or some suchlike tech geeks (I am definitely not one) could hack into Ebay and get the real identities of some of the sellers, publish the information and publicly shame them.OldPolarBearnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-32582385792427482582013-11-03T05:44:55.499-06:002013-11-03T05:44:55.499-06:00thanks.
i thought it was an okay response. I am r...thanks.<br /><br />i thought it was an okay response. I am really digging Chauncy Devegas blog here. I love his observations which give me some challenging reflections.<br /><br />I also like your user name on here. Learning really is eternal.Bryan Orteznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-44109395451173540472013-11-03T04:57:31.483-06:002013-11-03T04:57:31.483-06:00I'll just ride the wave on this one. Great re...I'll just ride the wave on this one. Great response to a great post. As you were.Learning is Eternalnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-31896317774937629502013-11-03T04:46:35.592-06:002013-11-03T04:46:35.592-06:00wow. this gives me quite a bit to think about this...wow. this gives me quite a bit to think about this morning.<br /><br />First of all, who should own these artifacts of history and who should gain profit off of them? I wonder if the sellers of these items of American slavery are the inheritors of this misfortune. I can't tell you how often my white friends will mention their 'old family farm' of hundreds of acres which their parents gained as an inheritance.<br /><br />It also spawns thought of the UN resolution to create Israel. The notion that these to national identities would not be able to live side by side, an old American tradition.<br /><br />Liberia also comes to mind, and their troubled history of bringing 'civilization' into a wild untamed landscape (and people).<br /><br />Discussions of slavery are difficult. <br /><br />To make a cheap investment in history provides a very poor return in knowledge of said history. We make American history pretty cheap in public schools, especially in relation to American slavery. The ignorance, shame, fear, and denial surrounding conversations of American history I think are the result of this cheap investment. <br /><br />You cannot have a solid discussion about slavery without committing various forms of degradation on black and brown bodies. I think this is a difficult pill to swallow which may rather be ignored by large populations of all persuasions. Whites also want to know that they have some form of redemption in the narrative. So the central narrative that takes place leaves whites with a feeling of accomplishment, overcoming their enslavement and others, and tries to neutralize, like an antiseptic, the pain from the various ideologies of white supremacism and the actions to enforce those ideologies.Bryan Orteznoreply@blogger.com