tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post8014690180028427130..comments2024-03-22T20:34:13.792-05:00Comments on Indomitable | The online home of Chauncey DeVega: The Chitlins and Gefilte Fish Project Presents freedarko's Dr. LICLady Zora, Chauncey DeVega, and Gordon Gartrellehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09138154899923808806noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-62401707927303746132009-03-02T08:56:00.000-06:002009-03-02T08:56:00.000-06:00I thought I was the only one who cringed every tim...I thought I was the only one who cringed every time Adam Mansbach opened his mouth. This post is strangely reaffirming.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-48727547916805880172009-02-06T19:14:00.000-06:002009-02-06T19:14:00.000-06:00I think there's a far tighter nexus, as we wannabe...I think there's a far tighter nexus, as we wannabe lawyers say, between hip-hop and black American culture than there is between Borges and Argentinean culture. Though what you say is right; I'm very interested in black music but not interested whatsoever in black film, black television, black comedy, black dance, black art, black literature, or black churches.Asherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06495408546806192092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-56154069938315706012009-02-06T18:47:00.000-06:002009-02-06T18:47:00.000-06:00First, there were many great non-Black jazz musici...First, there were many great non-Black jazz musicians, just not Miles Davis great, secondly the idea of "American blackness" being cool is, to me, very simply explained. <BR/><BR/>My father once asked me why I liked hip hop so much. I reminded him that the man with no name trilogy(the Good the Bad and the Ugly, a Fistful of Dollars and a Few Dollars more) were some of his favorite movies. In it, an outsider, a loner who has rejected society to some degree goes about his business accumulating wealth without any thoughts to society. I then played the song, "Shoot Outs" by Nas for my dad and broke down the lyrics. The idea of a man ignoring laws and cultural mores is powerful and seductive to any teenage male. This was my in to hip hop, rebellion, rejection of middle class morality, etc. etc. Crude? Yes, but so is the mind of a teenage male. <BR/><BR/>I love hip hop and jazz. I also love South American literature and Silver Age Marvel comics. I also enjoy playing lacrosse. I don't think my love for hip hop makes me any more enamored with black American culture than my love for Borges makes me enamored of Argentine culture, or my love for lacrosse makes me beholden to wealthy white culture(or native american culture). Quality is quality, no?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-50343369508545371832009-02-06T15:26:00.000-06:002009-02-06T15:26:00.000-06:00It's interesting that Gordon mentions Jewish "refi...It's interesting that Gordon mentions Jewish "refinement," since from a WASP perspective, Jews are stereotypically associated with vulgarity and avarice. The same gold necklace and fur coat is seen by blacks as living large and by WASPs as tacky and nouveau rich. Jewish people are more present in the inner city, but Jewish success must also seem somehow more accessible or relatable to blacks.Brown Recluse, Esq.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03245918372043026992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-82841985152850753932009-02-05T01:12:00.000-06:002009-02-05T01:12:00.000-06:00I am trying to see these particular black folks’ a...I am trying to see these particular black folks’ appropriation of Jewish culture as a harmless bit of cross-cultural exchange, but I just can’t. First, I think it’s kind of offensive to Jewish people: Cam’ron’s depiction of Jews is analogous to the “Lost In Translation” treatment of Japanese people (to move away from the fetishization of black ghetto residents example). <BR/><BR/>Furthermore, I see Jewish anti-blackness, not their anti-coolness as the point of attraction. Commending Jews for their “craftiness” and business acumen may be a way to laud Jewish success (however stereotypical that may be), but it’s also a way to slight ordinary black people. Jay Z’s “black bar mitzvahs” and “Jewish lawyers” are supposed to suggest a lifestyle and, more importantly, a refinement beyond the grasp of average black people. <BR/><BR/>I would certainly group the Jewish appropriation with such statements of new money faux-sophistication as “I’ve traveled the world while staying in luxury resorts and eating lobster and scrimps,” but I’d also have to lump them with “there’s Indian in my family,” which is a more problematic category for a respectable negro. <BR/><BR/>By the way, over at <A HREF="http://straightbangin.blogspot.com/2007/10/tall-israelis-have-invaded-jay-zs-mind.html" REL="nofollow">straightbangin</A> Joey sparked a great discussion along these lines a little over a year ago.gordon gartrellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07453017150507048961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-65689616552849564332009-02-04T22:25:00.000-06:002009-02-04T22:25:00.000-06:00I don't want to throw a monkey wrench in this beau...I don't want to throw a monkey wrench in this beautiful argument/case study, but I'm an Asian-Jew. Unlike the case of the nerdy jew professional finding his mail order bride in Malaysia, My father is in fact the Asian one. My early experiences with racism/discrimination all manifested in the form of anti-asian talk; phenotype wins out most of the time with kids.<BR/><BR/>That being said, basketball really is a great link between these two tribes of Israel (Palestine?).<BR/><BR/>Also, with all this black nerd talk, can we talk about the sophistication of southern figures such as André Benjamin? Especially when considering the "non-urban jew phenomenon"; those on the fringes of society have every right to mingle (how else can we explain rock and roll's whiteness, in juxtaposition to the 'jewness' of NY Hip Hop.<BR/><BR/>shnon-The Prince Klezmer ep that never was...Jamøn Serranohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09298377716246559729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-86813375392099306942009-02-04T18:15:00.000-06:002009-02-04T18:15:00.000-06:00So now I understand why black people love me. Also...So now I understand why black people love me. Also:<BR/><BR/>"to the constantly weird goings-on with my congregation’s rabbis (everything from megalomania, to sex scandal to one of the temporary rabbis engaging in fisticuffs with a student)"<BR/><BR/>I think we may have belonged to the same synagogue. Or maybe all aging rabbis lewdly proposition their young cute administrators/Hebrew school teachers.Asherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06495408546806192092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-75455290176532737762009-02-04T15:19:00.000-06:002009-02-04T15:19:00.000-06:00I can't remember the name of it, but not long ago ...I can't remember the name of it, but not long ago VH1 had a documentary special about the exchanges between the black and jewish communities, and how that interaction played out in forming the hip-hop aesthetic. One of the most hilarious, yet insightful, parts of the show was that young hip-hop artists in the 1980s dressed in a very similar fashion to old jewish men. Hard to believe as it was, it was true. It wasn't just that the beastie boys were trying to look and dress "urban," they were just drawing from similar influences as their black peers. Even today, where I work I see jewish women in their 60s who dress a lot like the really black hip hop artists I see on television today. <BR/><BR/>I think what a lot of the discussion on this thread is that for a very long, blacks and jews both predominantly resided in urban areas. The blacks, like the jews, were entrenched in cities and didn't necessary have a lot of money. They were outsiders, but lived in creatively inspiring places. In fact, drawing another parallel, before the black community starting dominating the game of basketball, it was the jewish leagues that really populated the strongest inter city leagues. So I'm not sure that the connection is just that these two groups have some kind of natural affinity for each other as social outcasts in American society. At least part of it is the fact that both groups inhabited inter city areas and drew from some of the same influences. I don't think cool black people like jews because they yearn to be nerds. Is it so farfetched that perhaps these cool black people find jewish people, and their aesthetic cool, in and of themselves?Brian Lee Ellisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00773451823825985335noreply@blogger.com