tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post6754329370559783513..comments2024-03-17T20:04:18.872-05:00Comments on Indomitable | The online home of Chauncey DeVega: Symbolic Racism in Action: President Obama Wants to Make White Americans "Dependent" on the Government Just Like Black People AreLady Zora, Chauncey DeVega, and Gordon Gartrellehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09138154899923808806noreply@blogger.comBlogger60125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-9770478641802532652011-08-24T14:01:45.793-05:002011-08-24T14:01:45.793-05:00@Oh Crap,
I am a Free Black Man don't need wi...@Oh Crap,<br /><br />I am a Free Black Man don't need wings...lol,lol,lol,<br /><br />With regard to the windfalls of being the first for many people the rewards have come in many ways..Plane Ideas https://www.blogger.com/profile/13838821721942426785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-86780854587021542292011-08-24T10:14:55.117-05:002011-08-24T10:14:55.117-05:00@ W Beard
"I don't think in his heart of ...@ W Beard<br />"I don't think in his heart of hearts Obama would prefer a 50/50 comprimise between his ideals and those of the Tea Party"<br /><br />You're right. If he was free to do as he wished without pretending to be liberal, he could go full on T-party. Like his mirror image, Herman Cain. Obama ought to be running as a Republican.nomadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16196543910280589478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-65549850071068186562011-08-24T02:44:55.557-05:002011-08-24T02:44:55.557-05:00@Thrasher
Who said he was a tragic mulatto?...BTW...@Thrasher<br /><br /><i>Who said he was a tragic mulatto?...BTW being first is often an unearned windfall in to many racial equations..</i><br /><br />Put your feathers down, it was something I brought up myself. As for any windfalls from being a first, I don't see any. It's quite overrated, if you ask me.Oh Craphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08569760594341619659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-25393348796494738662011-08-23T23:44:09.407-05:002011-08-23T23:44:09.407-05:00I see a lot of folks frustrated with the direction...I see a lot of folks frustrated with the direction politics have been steering this country in the past number of years. I would like to draw a distinction (at least one percieved on my part) between what Obama would do if he had things his way, and what Obama ends up compromising to when some good ol boy 'Merickan rednecks have a political revolt over a Black man in office, and decide to vote in a festering crop of obstructionist douchebags that won't let ANYTHING reasonable pass in congress. what the f*ck is he supposed to do with that group of tea baggers shutting down the functionality of government? And the republicans have all shifted over to the please the Tea Baggers. I don't think in his heart of hearts Obama would prefer a 50/50 comprimise between his ideals and those of the Tea Party, but to get anything passed and to avoid absolute government shut down, what else is to be done? <br /><br /> Don't mistake his comprimises for his vision. <br /><br /> What comes out of washington has been hi-jacked by the Tea Party plain and simple.Weird Beardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-63136364463789493422011-08-23T20:40:11.079-05:002011-08-23T20:40:11.079-05:00@ Oh Crap,
Who said he was a tragic mulatto?...BT...@ Oh Crap,<br /><br />Who said he was a tragic mulatto?...BTW being first is often an unearned windfall in to many racial equations..Plane Ideas https://www.blogger.com/profile/13838821721942426785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-59538258742946949832011-08-23T17:47:20.690-05:002011-08-23T17:47:20.690-05:00Thanks. Good to find one of my kind.Thanks. Good to find one of my kind.nomadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16196543910280589478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-39018826016399423092011-08-23T16:56:26.848-05:002011-08-23T16:56:26.848-05:00"by nomad standards, it seems a bit mild.&quo...<b>"by nomad standards, it seems a bit mild."</b><br /><br />But no less effective!<br /><br /><b>"Yes, I think so. The support of Obama from older blacks arises out of a different motivation than that of younger blacks."</b><br /><br />Me too, but Thrasher made an interesting point as well. Though my mother's been gone for 15 years now, and I'm sure, given her marchin' and rabble-rousin', would not have supported the Changeling - I <i>do</i> know people at home who still think like those he described.<br /><br /><b>"They have never known anything but neoliberalism."</b><br /><br />A one-sided picture indeed. As bad as growing up in the Jim Crow South was, I'm glad now, that I had the benefit of knowing a more well-rounded picture of our existence in these United States. And that's not to say that when I was younger, I didn't think like today's 30-something's, I did - but because of the benefit of a different perspective, I realized somewhere along the line that "gettin' in, where you fit in" might benefit one financially - to a point (there always is one) - but it does nothing for that real man/woman in the mirror.<br /><br />Went to the last link you posted, and found lots of thoughts in common! Might have to pinch that, "All I Wanna Say Is..." for my sidebar (with attribution of course!). Appreciate the conversation, Man...DebChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02018798227792356966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-36633819289305107892011-08-23T12:37:16.034-05:002011-08-23T12:37:16.034-05:00"I think the older relatives' support may..."I think the older relatives' support may be coming from the fact that they, for all intents and purposes, feel they've gotten what they never thought they'd have - a "Black president." Just a thought."<br /><br />Yes, I think so. The support of Obama from older blacks arises out of a different motivation than that of younger blacks. That is why I never did anything to contradict the awe that the election of Obama inspired in the heart of my mother. That the daughter of a sharecropper would ever live to see such a thing. That's a different story than what's happening with the 30 somethings.They have no idea what liberalism actually looks like. They have never known anything but neoliberalism. They, no less than their white counterparts are Reagan spawn. Born in a time period where the politics have shifted so far right that a conservative like Obama can be seen as someone to rally the black community behind.nomadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16196543910280589478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-8695241882416111632011-08-23T12:06:28.807-05:002011-08-23T12:06:28.807-05:00@Deb
So basically, Deb, that's what my rampage...@Deb<br />So basically, Deb, that's what my rampage looks like. Although, by nomad standards, it seems a bit mild. Nobody died this time (if I believed in smiley faces I'd put one here).<br /><br />Anyway, you asked about my blogs. They are mostly a collection of internet articles and videos in the categories of politics, religion, government conspiracies, science and the unexplained, and art. The one which is to be the one where I actually write stuff is ironymous.wordpress.com. But I don't, unfortunately, spend a lot of time there. For some reason my first blog remains my primary one.http://ironymous.blogspot.com/nomadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16196543910280589478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-61948535240959574142011-08-23T08:17:16.496-05:002011-08-23T08:17:16.496-05:00Full-time reader, part time commenter. But I want...Full-time reader, part time commenter. But I wanted to add on to the tailend of this discussion with being "the Black first". I wrote this for one of my people's blog's three years ago. Comparing my experience under another first high profile black dude who has now fallen into relative obscurity and the arrival of BO... <br /><br />"Tempered Expectations on Barack Obama" - http://dallaspenn.com/weblog/?p=274640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-84160265190353968282011-08-23T07:50:30.165-05:002011-08-23T07:50:30.165-05:00No Deb, you read me right. I was just musing about...No Deb, you read me right. I was just musing about the other side of the argument. I'm little groggy right now. Just got up. Will be back later.nomadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16196543910280589478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-43239100988931897862011-08-23T02:27:10.978-05:002011-08-23T02:27:10.978-05:00How did I miss this party?
Ah, well...
@Thrashe...How did I miss this party? <br /><br />Ah, well...<br /><br />@Thrasher:<br /><br /><b>Obama is a flashback proper negro one that does not make waves..</b><br /><br />Interesting point, though I'm not sure about it. Any "first" makes waves just by showing up, which could land you in the hospital. <br /><br />I also don't see him as some tragic mulatto, either. That sort of thing works for 19th c melodramas but real life? <br /><br />And then there's the reality this country hasn't moved past 19th c stereotypes of us, so there's that.Oh Craphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08569760594341619659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-53855479441869990212011-08-22T21:50:20.892-05:002011-08-22T21:50:20.892-05:00"We are talking about Obama who esle??"
...<b>"We are talking about Obama who esle??"</b><br /><br />You're right - but dang, Thrasher! I was just sharing a thought!<br /><br /><b>"...many older Blacks thought MLK was an agitator and many did not like the noise he was making especially Black folks going up the middle class ladder the "sid-dity negroes.:.. Obama is a flashback proper negro one that does not make waves.."</b><br /><br />Now that's something that never occurred to me, but you've got a really good point there. But it doesn't explain people supporting him like John Lewis, who made a bit of noise himself with SNCC - he was crying like a baby on inauguration day!DebChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02018798227792356966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-11392047939518873222011-08-22T21:19:54.688-05:002011-08-22T21:19:54.688-05:00Deb,
We are talking about Obama who esle??Nomad d...Deb,<br /><br />We are talking about Obama who esle??Nomad does not embrace the 'generational narrative but Obama is not an old man so I think it is generational many older Blacks thought MLK was an agitator and many did not like the noise he was making especially Black folks going up the middle class ladder the "sid-dity negroes:.. Obama is a flashback proper negro one that does not make waves..<br /><br />As I noted white folks prepared the stage for just the colored guy they wanted..Plane Ideas https://www.blogger.com/profile/13838821721942426785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-29789177767049568402011-08-22T21:06:40.608-05:002011-08-22T21:06:40.608-05:00nomad..."Come to think of it it's not gen...nomad...<b>"Come to think of it it's not generational. Most of my older relatives also support him."</b><br /><br />Thought you were talking about the, "in the thirties" crowd not quite understanding your perspective - my bad.<br /><br />I think the older relatives' support may be coming from the fact that they, for all intents and purposes, feel they've gotten what they never thought they'd have - a "Black president." Just a thought.<br /><br />Thrasher...<b>"He is man with feet in both racial camps as such from my perspective this binary stew makes him externally Black but his interior is not...he simply does not have the ingredients for such a persona.</b><br /><br />Interesting, and if you're talking about him specifically, I can agree, given who raised him - but I don't think it applies to all those with similar "ingredients."<br /><br /><b>"This scares me especially as a Black man and a Black Activist..."</b><br /><br />Funny you should say that, I was thinking the same thing!DebChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02018798227792356966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-44788455402922916172011-08-22T19:16:40.833-05:002011-08-22T19:16:40.833-05:00Come to think of it it's not generational. Mos...Come to think of it it's not generational. Most of my older relatives also support him. So that can't be it. No. It must have something to do with one's political outlook. Through what prism do we view the world. Conservative people will have a conservative outlook. A liberal personality liberal. Etc. Etc. The empirical evidence interpreted accordingly.nomadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16196543910280589478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-47484239537084898582011-08-22T18:09:52.935-05:002011-08-22T18:09:52.935-05:00Great talking points here today..I am also an old ...Great talking points here today..I am also an old 'G' and I don't subscribed to nomad's analysis of Obama..<br /><br />As I have posted here many times Obama is a sum total of his cultural dna..He is man with feet in both racial camps as such from my perspective this binary stew makes him externally Black but his interior is not...I never expected to Obama to be a 'genuine black leader he simply does not have the ingredients for such a persona.<br /><br />Obama is a generational figure not a leader or even a superior politician...He is the result of a convergence of good will,circumstance and timing.. He captured the moment and ran with the gravity of change and discord ...Race at point had little to do with this emergence now of course it has a lot to do with his descent..<br /><br />Obama was what white folks wanted and were prepared to handle as usch he is without question a creation of thier paradigm... Despite our incredible genius and cultural ethos in America right here..right now we are still in peril and a margainal factor in the Americana( CD's word) Empire...<br /><br />Now we must really hustle and stay focused I fee the race is more vunerbale now than ever before because I feel the Americana Empire is in a state of flux...They simply are lost at sea and don't know what to do..This scares me especially as a Black man and a Black Activist...<br /><br />Obama can't help because he has no roots and Obama can't help because the meltdown is bigger than him..It is the empire in a spiral tailspin..Plane Ideas https://www.blogger.com/profile/13838821721942426785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-10061268521512436482011-08-22T15:21:03.945-05:002011-08-22T15:21:03.945-05:00Damn! night = might in previous commentDamn! night = might in previous commentDebChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02018798227792356966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-3440103504758905772011-08-22T15:13:53.108-05:002011-08-22T15:13:53.108-05:00nomad...now "THAT" was to the point and ...nomad...now <b>"THAT"</b> was to the point and <i>very well said!</i>DebChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02018798227792356966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-19004834607792788672011-08-22T15:08:11.067-05:002011-08-22T15:08:11.067-05:00nomad..."It's a generational thing."...nomad...<b>"It's a generational thing."</b><br /><br />Yes it is. The conversations I have with my 27 & 30 year-old sons are proof positive of that for me! :-) But I keep pluggin' away with <i>real history </i> (not the "Lies My Teacher Told Me") and tangible personal experiences (some of which they've witnessed). I can't say they <i>always</i> get me - but I won't rest, because as you know - the struggle continues.<br /><br />cd...<b>"How do we locate Obama relative to the Black Freedom Struggle?"</b><br /><br />Looking forward, not back.<br /><br /><b>"What would/does a "genuine" black leader look like."</b><br /><br />I'm going to leave that one to nomad, I've been hogging enough space! :-) I <i>will</i> say though, besides the most commonly known leaders like MLK and Malcom, true leaders of the struggle have been legion! I recently re-watched "COINTELPRO 101" and was once again reminded, not only of how many "genuine leaders" fought the good fight, but how the Black Freedom Struggle inspired many "Others" to grow their own grassroots movements for freedom, dignity, respect and self-determination - <i>as well as</i> how the U.S. government still hasn't changed - even with the Changeling at the helm. <br /><br />Not sure the ages of your students, but there are some pretty enlightening oral histories/downloadable audio clips and a small number of videos over at Freedom Archives (http://www.freedomarchives.org/index.html) that night inspire some critical thinking among them.DebChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02018798227792356966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-42561474517065941842011-08-22T14:58:35.023-05:002011-08-22T14:58:35.023-05:00@CD
Naw, man. Old folks is grumpy. I'm old and...@CD<br />Naw, man. Old folks is grumpy. I'm old and I'm grumpy and I'm ready to exterminate the biological units infesting this planet. And unlike the Star Trek Nomad I won't mistake one of them for my creator.<br /><br />But first...<br /><br />That is a good distinction to be made. Between civil rights leader and political leader. The civil rights leaders, with a couple of exceptions, never made the transition to political leadership, meaning actual positions in government. Instead the perennial slave-driver class took the positions in government that the civil rights leaders opened up. Mayorships, Congress members, etc. These black politicians continued the same oppressive practices of their white predecessors, by and large. Their job, like all slavedrivers, is not to improve the condition of the black underclass but to control and manage them. And this is the function of the ultimate slavedriver.<br /><br />Barack Obama is not a civil rights leader, but through a shrewd marketing (psy-ops) program he has been sold to black Americans as the culmination of the efforts of the civil rights movement; conflating in the minds of most blacks the image of the civil rights leader with that of political leader. The result is securing the allegiance of blacks for a president who is, in all practical ways, working against their own best interests. <br /><br />What would a genuine black leader look like? A genuine black leader in government. By his policies ye shall know him.nomadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16196543910280589478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-69581202424421168412011-08-22T14:12:25.232-05:002011-08-22T14:12:25.232-05:00@Nomad. I think there is the gem of an interesting...@Nomad. I think there is the gem of an interesting idea there. How do we locate Obama relative to the Black Freedom Struggle? I never saw him as a civil rights leader (he ran against that tradition--his much touted speech on race is proof of that, when you get a chance read it, don't listen to it), but I can perhaps see how some would.<br /><br />What is your take on that? Moreover, with the benefit of a longer view, your point on him not being a genuine black leader is sharp. What would/does a "genuine" black leader look like.<br /><br />My head is pretty well attached...I think ;)<br /><br />BTW "son" is a turn of phrase, not meant as disrespectful. Sometimes you got to smile and relax Nomad or you will blow a circuit.<br /><br />Black folks are always so grumpy!chaunceydevegahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09652406326490873337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-39305225258093582042011-08-22T13:50:25.971-05:002011-08-22T13:50:25.971-05:00"nomad...Damn! Leslie Uggam
s?! Now that was ..."nomad...Damn! Leslie Uggam<br />s?! Now that was during my time! I should remember that episode! "<br /><br /> "I am just a mediocre guy of his thirties trying to make sense of the world."<br /><br />Okay, I think I'm beginning to understand what's going on here. It's a generational thing. It's been many years since someone has called me "son". Except on the web, once over at the ROOT. Man, you young guys need to cut it out. If you're not sure you're talking to someone of same generation, you need to cut it out. It don't go over so well with us senior citizens. Ghetto nerd? I'm the original ghetto nerd. I was a ghetto nerd before anybody in the ghetto knew what a nerd was. Son? Man are you kidding me? Get off my lawn, kid!<br /><br />That also explains why it seems my critique of Obama is disregarded. From the perspective of growing up in the Civil Rights era, I am able to see the degree to which Obama is a betrayal of that heritage. I guess it's hard to recognize an impostor if you've never seen a genuine black leader.nomadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16196543910280589478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-77294558473447793552011-08-22T11:37:11.367-05:002011-08-22T11:37:11.367-05:00@Nomad. Roy Kirk says to calm down. Slow down your...@Nomad. Roy Kirk says to calm down. Slow down your processing. <br /><br />You know I was kidding right?chaunceydevegahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09652406326490873337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-90637753082975096992011-08-22T09:12:23.368-05:002011-08-22T09:12:23.368-05:00Cause the he started in on the ad homenim. I don&#...Cause the he started in on the ad homenim. I don't play that.nomadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16196543910280589478noreply@blogger.com