tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post3918663719919419008..comments2024-03-22T20:34:13.792-05:00Comments on Indomitable | The online home of Chauncey DeVega: You Make the Call: Seattle Cop Punches Young Black Woman in Face During AltercationLady Zora, Chauncey DeVega, and Gordon Gartrellehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09138154899923808806noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-87099077452891290652010-06-19T04:56:44.598-05:002010-06-19T04:56:44.598-05:00When she assaulted him by pushing him, the game wa...When she assaulted him by pushing him, the game was officially "on" and we all know the one with the gun is going to win. <br />This young "lady" was clearly in the wrong. Everyone and Jesus knows that you do not put your hands on a police officer. It's that simple. If you do, then you will suffer the consequences. Now, the punch to the face was excessive but how is he to know that she doesn't have a gun, knife or whatever? The bystanders, especially the one shouting "Are you serious?" clearly kept their butts on the sidelines: they have sense.<br />The officer should be reprimanded for his excessive use of force but not fired. She resisted arrest, she assaulted the officer = Case closed and more juvenile detention for these "ladies". Oh yes, these girls have a history of bad behavoir.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-82354388999490034452010-06-18T12:19:04.184-05:002010-06-18T12:19:04.184-05:00For anyone who actually believes that this situati...For anyone who actually believes that this situation MIGHT HAVE gone down the same way if those women had been white (which I think most sane people realize it wouldn't have) check out <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFY4w7ObYPs" rel="nofollow">THIS </a>video. The cop remains calm, gives the white man a chance to get away, and allows other people to intercede on the mans behalf. And this is all AFTER the man bashed him in the head with a bottle. If this incident had involved a Black man, there would have been a funeral. Instead, the police officer was able to restrain himself since he was looking at the man who attacked him as a "good ole boy" like himself.Joannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15409225119134162318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-4556994540609440672010-06-17T23:39:31.471-05:002010-06-17T23:39:31.471-05:00@Gordon:
I acknowledged in my original post that t...@Gordon:<br />I acknowledged in my original post that the women were definitely "talking back" (and then some) to the officer. However, I have to wonder if the situation would have even gotten to that point at all if the women had been non-black. I really don't know. Again, I acknowledge that in my original comment as well. It's almost like a chicken and egg question in my opinion. Did the cop give them a harder time for jaywalking (jaywalking!) in the first place because they were black? Or did they bring this upon themselves for talking back and pushing Officer Friendly? I. don't. know. for. sure. However, I'm disinclined to side with the police. I'm a law-abiding citizen, but I don't generally don't trust officers of the law. I just don't. That's based on my personal experiences, those of friends/relatives/acquaintances, and the research that has been done on racial disparities and arrests/traffic stops, etc. <br /><br />I will tell you this. I was shocked when he cold-cocked that teenage woman in the face. Just busted her in her face. Honestly, I know part of it is just a visceral reaction. I'm a black woman, not that large, and I've questioned the police at various times when I've been stopped. It's somewhat scary to know that that possibly could have been me depending upon how the officer I was dealing with at the time felt that day and how he viewed black women.<br /><br />I understand that these women were mixing it up with the officer. However, I feel like this is part of a larger problem in that the police feel/act like/pretty much appear to be accountable to no one. It's not right. You should be able to question an officer about why they're stopping or trying to arrest you without it turning into a fight. But that's often not what happens, especially for people of color/black people. <br /><br />Again, I hear what you're saying, but I just can't say that officer was in the right in this situation. A 19-year-old woman. Life is cheap.TMAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-38400183548572312052010-06-17T19:36:48.576-05:002010-06-17T19:36:48.576-05:00It's very likely his actions were consciously ...<i>It's very likely his actions were consciously or subconsciously influenced by the types of beliefs about black women that are common in our society (aggressive, loud, strong, bitchy, not feminine, criminal, lazy, etc.)</i><br /><br />Hmmm. Running up on a cop and getting into a shoving match with him as he tries to subdue your friend.<br /><br />Aggressive? Check<br />Loud? Check<br />Strong? Check<br />Bitchy? Depends on your definition<br />Not feminine? See Bitchy<br />Criminal? Check<br />Lazy? N/A<br /><br />The cop may very well have stereotyped her before the incident, but he didn't force her to live up to the stereotypes.<br /><br />The problem with most public discussions of these kinds of incidents is that people want a clear cut victim and villain. They want to attach all the blame to one party and absolve the other party of all wrongdoing. As in this case,it usually doesn't work that way.gordon gartrellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07453017150507048961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-32522869676364155942010-06-17T18:11:15.591-05:002010-06-17T18:11:15.591-05:00And you are onto something with the breaking point...<i>And you are onto something with the breaking point of the public and the abuse of authority. When will the machine have to be reoriented?</i><br /><br />well.., I'm sure you noticed that talibagger father and son who killed a pair of officers in Memphis Arkansas a couple weeks ago - then there's the Hemet CA amateur IED efforts - I sincerely believe that given the extent to which America is awash in weaponry, like no other time in U.S. history - and the Greatest Depression if full effizi, that unless this thin blue line wants to take on the role of counter insurgents on multiple fronts - they better commence to elevating their community policing and relationship management game, or, face the very real possibility of having to go to war like the popo in Mexico...,CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-47131747471299847492010-06-17T15:02:48.322-05:002010-06-17T15:02:48.322-05:00Once she laid hands on him/shoved him she was in t...Once she laid hands on him/shoved him she was in the wrong. At that point she's assaulting him and interfering with a lawful arrest/stop.<br /><br />Would she have gotten the fist in the face if she were white? Maybe, maybe not. But since we know (or should already know) that cops in general have a pretty low threshold to escalate things to another level where black folks are concerned, why would anyone be STUPID enough to lay hands on a cop or push a cop. That's insanely and magnificently mindless. Take the ticket/citation and fight it in court. Few cops are going to sit there and let people resist arrest, interfere in an arrest or actually physically assault them. That's not the way cops are made.<br /><br />The cop has superior capacity for violence and is backed by the state. Unless you're ready to kill or be killed at that moment, starting a physical confrontation with a police officer is pointless.Shady_Gradyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00996625985002373392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-88191793079309603112010-06-17T12:50:49.306-05:002010-06-17T12:50:49.306-05:00That last paragraph was a quotable! I like it...an...That last paragraph was a quotable! I like it...and agree.<br /><br />And you are onto something with the breaking point of the public and the abuse of authority. When will the machine have to be reoriented?<br /><br />cdchaunceydevegahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09652406326490873337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-83441043897269708542010-06-17T11:51:27.364-05:002010-06-17T11:51:27.364-05:00What I am saying is that folks need to be more cal...<i>What I am saying is that folks need to be more calculating in how and when and the fashion in which they resist the police.</i><br /><br />you not seeing me hon.bro.prof....,<br /><br />and since you asked us to make the call - at what point in the continuing economic and civic collapse does it become meet, right, and salutary for the popo to begin to recalibrate their role as public servants - and actually embark on a bit of community policing type public service, rather than, redounding to stereotypical, authoritarian (racist?) serving with no regard?<br /><br />cause bottomline, officer walsh clowned himself, clowned his department, and stained the already beleaguered reputation of the seattle popo just a little bit more with these now virally propagated vignettes of discourteous, unprofessional, and unwarranted behavior.CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-30140380481230865542010-06-17T11:12:53.553-05:002010-06-17T11:12:53.553-05:00@JT: You're correct; I'm not a racism chas...@JT: You're correct; I'm not a racism chaser. I mentioned how black women's bodies were devalued during slavery because black women's bodies are still largely devalued today. I don't know if the officer would have punched a young white woman in the face. I really don't. However, that officer, like everyone else who grew up in America, has grown up in a white supremacist society. In such a society, black women are among the least valued as they are *female* and *black*. It's very likely his actions were consciously or subconsciously influenced by the types of beliefs about black women that are common in our society (aggressive, loud, strong, bitchy, not feminine, criminal, lazy, etc.). I do not know this definitely, although it is likely. That's why I included that bit in my first comment.<br /><br />I referenced the story about my experience with the transit cop as a counterpoint to the OP's suggestion that these young women talked back to the officer due to lack of home training. I did not mention that incident to present myself as a victim of police brutality. <br /><br />Reading is fundamental and reading comprehension is key, JT.TMAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-79749979956298838832010-06-17T11:09:36.558-05:002010-06-17T11:09:36.558-05:00@CNu--You wrote: But then, CD is pretty much touti...@CNu--You wrote: But then, CD is pretty much touting the authoritarian party line that it's right and proper (not merely necessary sometimes) to accept egregious authoritarian abuses from popo gone wild too...<br /><br />Not true. What I am saying is that folks need to be more calculating in how and when and the fashion in which they resist the police. Those young woman could have been shot and killed over a jaywalking ticket. And even if "wrong" for being ticketed by an overzealous cop, it is not worth your life. Go lawyer up, fight back, and save your life.<br /><br />cdchaunceydevegahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09652406326490873337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-77429554811732905792010-06-17T09:49:59.833-05:002010-06-17T09:49:59.833-05:00JT- I am not saying it NEVER happens... but honest...JT- I am not saying it NEVER happens... but honestly, do you REALLY believe that the police harass white people to the same degree as they do Black people?? <br /><br />I am a white woman. The ONLY time I get harassed by cops is if I am WITH a Black man, OR I am in a predominantly Black neighborhood (where I am told I do not belong). <br /><br />Yes, I HAVE heard of cops harassing white men. BUT, it is not a widespread phenomena like police abuse of Black men and women is. In ALL the cases of police brutality that have been "caught on tape" how many of them have been WHITE victims??? Personally, I have only seen ONE. If this cops harassing white people phenomena was as common as you claim, wouldn't we see videos with white victims at least as often as we see them with Black victims?<br />And another thing, instead of getting ANGRY that you have been harassed by the police, you are JUSTIFYING their actions. So, I find it hard to believe you have actually experienced it. I do not know too many victims of police harasment with come away saying "oh they were just doiing their job!"Joannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15409225119134162318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-64327804654606529322010-06-17T09:31:19.668-05:002010-06-17T09:31:19.668-05:00Man I dont know. I just get mad when people tell m...<i>Man I dont know. I just get mad when people tell me I haven't seen this and I haven't had this happen to me because I'm white.</i><br /><br />so we have common ground, and the focus needs to be on unprofessional and excessively abusive po-po-gone wild behavior.CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-14929802391816139872010-06-17T09:04:46.894-05:002010-06-17T09:04:46.894-05:00Man I dont know. I just get mad when people tell m...Man I dont know. I just get mad when people tell me I haven't seen this and I haven't had this happen to me because I'm white.<br /><br />I'm just gonna leave it be and move on. I know what I've seen and experienced, and I'm not gonna argue about it.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />-JTAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-72488805496309781912010-06-17T08:50:19.038-05:002010-06-17T08:50:19.038-05:00JT, if you're not the cop whose behavior is in...JT, if you're not the cop whose behavior is in question, why are so identified that you accept him as a proxy for your own mentality and behavior?<br /><br />Why-oh-why are po-po-gone-wild ALWAYS the proxy for unintended group self-disclosure?CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-57360737072688063652010-06-17T08:28:28.940-05:002010-06-17T08:28:28.940-05:00yeah Joanna, I'm just lying to you. Sure. What...yeah Joanna, I'm just lying to you. Sure. Whatever helps you sleep at night. And if I shoved a cop, he'd probably just politely ask me to stop. Yup. I wouldn't get laid out on the concrete or anything.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />-JT (The white devil)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-77452501937736708342010-06-17T06:59:08.900-05:002010-06-17T06:59:08.900-05:00Has the "Black-women-are-never-victims" ...Has the "Black-women-are-never-victims" poison (heavily ingested by CNN, Black rappers and MCs, Black athletes, and a certain comedian radio host cum author) hit the blogger and those posting comments? <br /><br />My only "opinion" on this video is this: what if "Becky" and her friends were inserted? Somehow, I suspect that the (lack of?) "looks" of these women is bringing down the "you crazy, fool" and "insane" comments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-89268722421657731052010-06-17T04:30:19.937-05:002010-06-17T04:30:19.937-05:00Moreover Joanna, that they pretend it's right ...Moreover Joanna, that they pretend it's right and proper to accept egregious authoritarian abuses like the one displayed in this video, on the basis that bad and stupid shit happens to them too!!!<br /><br />But then, CD is pretty much touting the authoritarian party line that it's right and proper (not merely necessary sometimes) to accept egregious authoritarian abuses from popo gone wild too...,CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-43290784467199041212010-06-17T00:50:22.255-05:002010-06-17T00:50:22.255-05:00Ever notice how whenever there is an incident of a...Ever notice how whenever there is an incident of a police officer abusing a Black individual, all these anonymous white people who "get harassed by the cops ALL THE TIME" pop up out of the woodwork???Joannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15409225119134162318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-65576089907602357062010-06-17T00:12:28.618-05:002010-06-17T00:12:28.618-05:00TMA: you claim to not be a racism chaser but you c...TMA: you claim to not be a racism chaser but you can't resist tacking onto the end of your post a graphic anecdote of slavery era horrors. "It's not quite like that in today's streets." Talk about the understatement of the year right there.... <br /><br />And I think its funny that the seemingly best example that you could come up with of an instance where you've been the victim of police oppression was 'that time you got a ticket from a transit cop.' <br /><br />Get over it! The cops mess with me all the time and I'm white. So what? Scroll up and read the post under "Anonymous." That's me and it's all true! That's just the way that the police are. They think that they are god and all "civilians" are scum or potential terrorists.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />-JTAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-15293009889977145902010-06-16T23:01:36.275-05:002010-06-16T23:01:36.275-05:00This would be one of those situations when it woul...This would be one of those situations when it would be helpful to be an attorney, so I could quote some arcane ruling to show how wrong this was. Alas, I am not an attorney. However, after watching this video, I definitely believe that the officer's response was not commensurate with the situation.<br /><br />My mother taught (and still instructs) me to obey pretty much all authority figures. "Don't get involved in any political causes. You could lose your job." (I'm a licensed physical therapist, for what it's worth.) However, despite my mother's best efforts, as a 35-year-old black woman, I might have "talked back" to that officer. From what I've read, these women (one of them?) was charged with jaywalking. I once got a ticket in a NYC subway station for opening a handicapped door without permission from the station agent (who was ignoring me). I challenged the officer verbally; he appeared to get really irritated because I challenged him. Mind you, this was all verbal; I didn't touch him. He gave me a ticket and made some smarmy, smart a** comments as he wrote it.<br /><br />All that to say, while these young women were definitely "talking back to" and even physically touching this officer, I don't think busting this young woman in the face was warranted. I have very little respect for police even though I was "raised correctly." Again, I wouldn't touch an officer. These women did touch him, but I don't think this response was appropriate and the officer should be disciplined.<br /><br />I'm not a racism chaser, but as a (somewhat, sometimes) respectable negress, even I have a hard time determining when and to what extent my race/phenotype is a factor in situations such as this one. As I'm disinclined to give the benefit of the doubt to police officers (because there's been sooo many documented instances of them doing dirt and going relatively unpunished...in accounts I've read and in the personal experience and those of my friends, relatives, and acquaintances), I'm throwing my support behind the young women in this video clip.<br /><br />(Aside: I never forget reading various slave narratives and/or historical accounts of slavery...black women would be whipped when they were pregnant. Yeah, they would dig a hole for their tummies full of child, make them lie prone, and whip them. I know it's not quite like that out in today's streets...but still waters run deep.)TMAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-89133475548715755712010-06-16T22:51:02.558-05:002010-06-16T22:51:02.558-05:00Sorry, the only thing I can think of when watching...Sorry, the only thing I can think of when watching this video is how weak this officer is. It took him almost 2 minutes to subdue a riled 17 year old. Are you friggin kidding me? <br /><br />This officer would not last a minute on the real streets. If this was someone that really wanted to do him harm, the officer would have been pulverized.Bryanhttp://troupepost.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-17621980042561728372010-06-16T21:41:11.683-05:002010-06-16T21:41:11.683-05:00I'll concede that the cop shouldn't have h...I'll concede that the cop shouldn't have hit her (he should have hemmed her up--tasing or macing probably weren't the best options in that situation); however, she's lucky she didn't get her dumb ass shot.<br /><br />Folks want the freedom to act a damn fool, but don't want to face any of the consequences.<br /><br />She was bad and bold when she was shoving the cop, but when he checked that chin, all of a sudden, she's a delicate flower. Get out of her with that bullshit.<br /><br />aside: notice the black dude trying to save her from herself.gordon gartrellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07453017150507048961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-78440432388053319502010-06-16T20:58:44.431-05:002010-06-16T20:58:44.431-05:00hey Dr.Pfunk, there's alot of white people who...hey Dr.Pfunk, there's alot of white people who do the "don't fuck with the police or you could get badly hurt" talk with their kids. And I've been harrassed by the police many many times. I'm white and I've had cops:<br /><br />-hint to me that they were gonna frame me for burglary if I didn't stop loitering <br />-check me for ID for no reason (this always happens while I'm on foot, not driving)<br />-pull me over while I was riding my friends moped then accuse me of stealing it so they could search me (oh you fucked up now buddy, we've been looking for this one for a long time) <br /><br />Anyways, I think that this lady deserved to get punched in the face. She shoved a cop.... 'Nuff said. But I don't think she get charged with assault. I don't think you should be charged with assault if you don't physically hurt someone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-71998728482828167772010-06-16T20:19:36.371-05:002010-06-16T20:19:36.371-05:00overwhelming tactical advantage and the willingnes...overwhelming tactical advantage and the willingness to unhesitatingly and lethally respond is the antidote to the thin blue line gone wrong.<br /><br />Hemet CA can become commonplace after all....,CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-78856835017682399512010-06-16T19:57:45.165-05:002010-06-16T19:57:45.165-05:00Ok having dealt with SPD before I can honestly say...Ok having dealt with SPD before I can honestly say that the officer above was operating in a known gang area where the incidence of girl gangs is rising rapidly and the department's leadership isn't very clear on how to deal with such. <br /><br />However the guy did just punch a woman in the face for shoving him. And not a very forceful shove at that. Cop or not, would you really excuse that behavior in any man? How about in a man who you know is trained to subdue people larger than him and is supposed to keep his damn cool in tense situations?<br /><br />Whether or not she was in the wrong for her use of confrontation, he was certainly in the wrong for his terrible judgement and use of force, especially for letting things get out of hand without backup present (in an area with a high police presence no less). We may need to be more careful around police given the history, but we also have to expect more out of them than this.Relax and Aspirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17788364979711739914noreply@blogger.com