tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post3877368546596366514..comments2024-03-22T20:34:13.792-05:00Comments on Indomitable | The online home of Chauncey DeVega: Are Names Destiny? Of Race and Media Framing: What if Trayvon Martin had a "White" Name?Lady Zora, Chauncey DeVega, and Gordon Gartrellehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09138154899923808806noreply@blogger.comBlogger77125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-88135291691666001702012-05-26T17:12:10.402-05:002012-05-26T17:12:10.402-05:00We won't even get into the fact that he prefer...We won't even get into the fact that he prefers that delicate pejorative "coon" when any one of a dozen race-neutral epithets would have been the obvious choice for any psycho-sexual profile other than that of the classic spittle-flecking niggra-haytuh.<br /><br />PS Anyway, "that one anon", I'm curious: how's the defense shaping up? Is it true what I heard...? That it was, in fact, a botched robbery because you were feenin for some Skittles at the time...?A. Ominoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13807400943709124236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-91721755303605771352012-05-26T14:25:19.021-05:002012-05-26T14:25:19.021-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.freeboneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03131233817153602375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-86441837338638529072012-05-26T14:25:16.222-05:002012-05-26T14:25:16.222-05:00that one anon:
the fact that you refer to places ...that one anon:<br /><br />the fact that you refer to places as a "ghetto" is transparent enough, but i question how you know where i live. again, you think you know all about the world, but you don't know what you don't know.<br /><br />i may or may not be done here, because you clearly believe you are the only one with a correct worldview. and that's a sign of mental illness.freeboneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03131233817153602375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-85467027730933298682012-05-25T16:52:54.910-05:002012-05-25T16:52:54.910-05:00@All. I have been distracted elsewhere. Can someon...@All. I have been distracted elsewhere. Can someone please give me the bullet points on exactly what folks are going to and fro about?<br /><br />@One anon. Trust me WARN isn't an echo chamber. Some things may reverberate, and as a rule I don't censor comments, but each convo has its own rhythm. This isn't an amen chorus either--see how often people get upset at me. Thanks for chiming in. Don't go away just yet.chaunceydevegahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09652406326490873337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-4349580292061325952012-05-25T16:28:47.522-05:002012-05-25T16:28:47.522-05:00Not fucking around with people who look like shit ...Not fucking around with people who look like shit kept me out of trouble in the ghetto, it kept me out of trouble in school, it helped me survive childhood in a family that was ravaged by drugs and crime. The people here claiming that using visual observations on chosen attire and apparel is akin to racism, and that people just do it because they're "evil", clearly have about as much understanding about the situation as a random character in a Captain Planet episode has of pollution - Smog doesn't come from the "pollutinator", and everyone who is polluting isn't doing it because they have a boner for killing fish in the ocean. <br /><br />Flat out, my primary goal when dealing with someone I just met is my self preservation, not respecting their right to be judged fairly. I expect that it is most people's primary goal in that situation as well. I don't pussyfoot or bullshit about it: if the water doesn't smell right, I don't go near it. If you don't think the water smells right on my end, don't bother, I don't care, I don't think it's evil, wrong, malicious, or any of that. It's you looking out for you based on the evidence that you have, which is what you're supposed to do. But this shit where, you can have your reasons why you cross the street for people, but if anyone else does it, they're bigots, that's horseshit, plain and simple. Morons going on about how I'm arguing because of a loss of privlige, and fear of a Black Hat and all of that shit. Look, let me clue you in: I can't particularly say that Black people are my favorite people, but let me let you in on a little secret - it isn't because I'm a "privliged White" afraid of losing my superiority. Let me let you in on another little secret - it isn't because I'm Any Solid Non-White Color Other Than Black either. I'm done arguing on this, I've seen enough here to realize that there's far less intellectual discourse going on here than is advertised, and this is an echo chamber, where what is being echoed isn't necessarily logical or reasonable. There's another argument to be had here about how Black people are far more dangerous to Black people than the majority of White people, but I'm not having it. <br /><br />PS: Federal Judges are lower on the scale of crookedness than Gangbangers - a black robe disrespects the do-rag, not the other way around.That One Anon...noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-61372295873343088792012-05-25T16:27:45.240-05:002012-05-25T16:27:45.240-05:00At this point, I could modify my point by saying t...At this point, I could modify my point by saying that prejudgment isn't always right or accurate; that education on these things makes one a better prejudge of character (example: learning to identify tattoos and their meanings, so as to be able to tell the difference between one that means "spiritual pride", and one that means "gang killer", and not assume that all tattoos are equal); that while visual judgments on people can be reliable, that one should, when possible, get other verification of a person's character, and that actions people do are stronger evidence than how they look, to the point where the latter should be disregarded once the former is obtained. However, I'm not. I can see it's a waste. I took the viewpoint that judging someone based on looks that they choose is a manner of judging a person based on their character, and isn't entirely ineffective. Apparently, this makes me a bigot, in support of homicide, a coward,<br /><br /><br /><i>get a clue, you grumpy old lump.</i><br /><br />oh, and that. I'm not even going to be mad though, because this is one of those things that has enlightened me. You have no idea what you are talking about on this, Tom has no idea what he is talking about on this, Steven has no idea what he is talking about on this: anyone who has spent 10 minutes in a ghetto would know the value of what I'm speaking of. Real shit: most people who dress like coons, and present themselves as coons, act like coons. Most people who act like coons, are coons. Insert any racial slur you like there, I don't care. Occassionally, really good people wind up getting lumped into groups, because they looked the wrong way, in the wrong area, at the wrong time. It sucks, but I'm not going to lose sleep worrying about the few good people who I might have met that I didn't due to me dismissing them over their attire. To put it another way: I'm not getting mugged, beaten, robbed out of house and home, and worse in the name of dealing with people who are visibly pieces of shit, in order to find those handful of people who are not pieces of shit, but just look like it. I don't care what their race is. I don't care what their sex is...That One Anon...noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-1865910069847858922012-05-25T16:26:54.244-05:002012-05-25T16:26:54.244-05:00Besides the fact that in this situation, it's ...Besides the fact that in this situation, it's my adult daughter's choice who she deals with, and not mine, and unless I have valid proof that you are about to/have committed a crime, have hurt people, or are otherwise scum, I am not going to jump in the way of that. That said, every man has the right to not be sold on the man courting his daughter for any reason, and regardless of how respectful and polite a man is to his girlfriend's family, I'd be surprised if any father's attitude toward said man ever gets warmer than "lets see how this plays out before making a final judgment" on the first meeting. Even if he says otherwise in a positive manner.<br /><br />Regarding the employment, I already explained that one too, but to clarify: if you're being employed for your ability to attract people to a product I have, then unless you can demonstrate to me that you can attract people to said product despite your appearance, then yeah, my eyes take precedence. If you are explicitly being hired for your intelligence or technical knowledge, then I don't care if you have 4 eyes, wings, and 3 legs, if you pass the test you have the job.<br /><br /><br /><i><br /><br />it's no different than assuming all white-collar businessmen are embezzling criminals. i see a guy with a suit and i don't trust him with my money? absurd, right? no less absurd than your small-minded lookism.<br /></i><br /><br />No, it isn't any different. And it isn't absurd! You think ALL of my money is in the bank? Given that it seems like every year, we're hearing stories of rich White men on Wall Street embezzling hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars? JP Morgan just lost 2 billion, have no idea where it went (yeah right). I wouldn't blame you for saying "I have a lot of money, and I want it to grow for me, however, I don't trust this spit shined young White lad in front of me in the 3 piece suit and Armani tie, because I see so many of him involved in these thefts. The company seems sound, and what he is saying seems to add up, but just in case, I'm going to hold back some of my money/invest it elsewhere, and see what this guy does with what I give him. If, after some time, he proves that he is responsible with my money, then I will trust him with more of my money, and/or have more implicit trust in the things that he says." Why would I have a problem with that?That One Anon...noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-80370531180193514472012-05-25T16:26:13.645-05:002012-05-25T16:26:13.645-05:00OK, to clarify some things here, I posted replies ...OK, to clarify some things here, I posted replies #23 and #29, which the blog owner should be able to verify by checking IP's. Basically the same things I said later on under That One Anon.<br /><br /><i>Anon,<br /><br />You are a coward, but I'll bite. The point is that you can't judge based on looks. And you seem to disagree with that. That's really the whole summation.<br /><br />you think prejudice based on appearance is ok<br /><br />that's it. that's what you are saying. you are saying it's ok.<br /><br /></i><br /><br />Yes, I think prejudice based on appearances that you choose is OK, for reasons that I explained earlier. <br /><br /><br /><i><br /><br />just wanted to clear that up for everyone. anon supports judging on appearance and makes no distinction about what he means.<br /></i><br /><br />Since I didn't put That One Anon before the posts where I explicitly made a distinction between appearance by choice, and appearance you are born with, I will give you the benefit of the doubt on this. However, now we know, I support judging on appearances that you choose.<br /><br /><i><br />if i see those nazi dudes, sure i turn around and walk away, and you are free to walk away from me as much as you want. i can understand that. that's playing it safe. (also visible weapons designed solely to cause harm are different than tattoos and i think we both know that) i didn't want to interact with your asshole personality anyway.<br /><br />what i can't understand is when i come in actively seek employment, or when i come home with your daughter to meet you and shake your hand and am polite and respectful, and you still think i'm some threat because i have tattoos or whatever. it's bullshit and you know it.<br /><br /></i>That One Anon...noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-53409386252462128492012-05-25T13:58:31.418-05:002012-05-25T13:58:31.418-05:00dude, new anon, did you read anything anyone wrote...dude, new anon, did you read anything anyone wrote besides that sentence. <br /><br />srsly bro.freeboneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03131233817153602375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-74326962480317923752012-05-25T13:11:58.355-05:002012-05-25T13:11:58.355-05:00"if i see those nazi dudes, sure i turn aroun..."if i see those nazi dudes, sure i turn around and walk away"<br />And so would the typical white person in their right mind. The comparison of this to a black guy in a hoodie is ridiculous.<br />The problem is that some whites have an unreasonable fear of black people. I have had such unreasonable reactions from whites many times. And I don't have tats or even saggy pants.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-72315052700489041202012-05-25T10:52:40.048-05:002012-05-25T10:52:40.048-05:00Anon,
You are a coward, but I'll bite. The po...Anon,<br /><br />You are a coward, but I'll bite. The point is that you can't judge based on looks. And you seem to disagree with that. That's really the whole summation.<br /><br /><b>you think prejudice based on appearance is ok</b><br /><br />that's it. that's what you are saying. you are saying it's ok. <br /><br />just wanted to clear that up for everyone. anon supports judging on appearance and makes no distinction about what he means. <br /><br />if i see those nazi dudes, sure i turn around and walk away, and you are free to walk away from me as much as you want. i can understand that. that's playing it safe. (also visible weapons designed solely to cause harm are different than tattoos and i think we both know that) i didn't want to interact with your asshole personality anyway.<br /><br />what i can't understand is when i come in actively seek employment, or when i come home with your daughter to meet you and shake your hand and am polite and respectful, and you still think i'm some threat because i have tattoos or whatever. it's bullshit and you know it.<br /><br />it's no different than assuming all white-collar businessmen are embezzling criminals. i see a guy with a suit and i don't trust him with my money? absurd, right? no less absurd than your small-minded lookism. <br /><br />get a clue, you grumpy old lump.freeboneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03131233817153602375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-64046080465922491882012-05-24T22:00:27.682-05:002012-05-24T22:00:27.682-05:00That One Anon is truth.That One Anon is truth.CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-86516646782551555682012-05-24T21:36:48.926-05:002012-05-24T21:36:48.926-05:00Do I need to cite examples of the unhappily marrie...<i>Do I need to cite examples of the unhappily married</i><br /><br />lol, what in the world made you imagine I was referring to marriage?CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-54351828068315619172012-05-24T18:15:55.431-05:002012-05-24T18:15:55.431-05:00Steven,
I'm not proposing people stop with th...Steven,<br /><br />I'm not proposing people stop with the talk. It just gets maddening to think the talk's all there's going to be, that's all.<br /><br />& I wasn't being sarcastic, I like yer style.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09029436098418393783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-31361407969953991572012-05-24T18:11:44.929-05:002012-05-24T18:11:44.929-05:00Anyway: it's almost 1:30 am over here. I enjoy...Anyway: it's almost 1:30 am over here. I enjoyed chatting with you, Tom! I'm signing off...A. Ominoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13807400943709124236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-78828129853400077562012-05-24T18:07:36.261-05:002012-05-24T18:07:36.261-05:00PS @Tom: a comment on a blog literally changed my ...PS @Tom: a comment on a blog literally changed my life. Commenting can be powerful. The people (yo, Sunstein!) who are working day and night to take this miraculous communications tool out of Serfy (and Radical Serfy) hands want us to believe otherwise. Don't you buy it. It all starts with thoughts, then with talk, which leads to deeds...A. Ominoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13807400943709124236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-48309760472827837932012-05-24T18:02:22.841-05:002012-05-24T18:02:22.841-05:00"Saying on blogs that things should really re..."Saying on blogs that things should really really be different, though, that is an ineffective strategy."<br /><br />No, I'm saying that if we all chip in, things really *will* be different... it's by increments... always by increments... until the crystal suddenly forms. Good shit is sometimes contagious, man.A. Ominoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13807400943709124236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-73357212261927169882012-05-24T18:02:17.833-05:002012-05-24T18:02:17.833-05:00Thanks. May I consider you rather dim, as well?
...<i>Thanks. May I consider you rather dim, as well? </i><br /><br />From someone as hypocritical, biased, and incapable of making or refuting a point as you, sure, go ahead. You can't really ever win an internet debate, but you can tell how right you are by the quality of the people you piss off, and the quality of their discussion. Given what I've read from you, not only do I see no reason to change my policy of trusting my eyes within reason, but given the lengths you've gone to to portray anyone who uses common sense as a racist, and in support of homicide, I will rely on it more heavily. As unpopular as it may sound, and anti PC as it is, when it comes to people, you often CAN judge a book by it's cover.<br /><br />TLDR: To be damned by the devil is to be truly blessed.That One Anon...noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-26370742779711091042012-05-24T17:59:39.219-05:002012-05-24T17:59:39.219-05:00@Tom: don't worry, I won't be hanging arou...@Tom: don't worry, I won't be hanging around! laugh. Otherwise-worthy threads/ sites like this always attract too many racists who aren't bright enough to detect the points whizzing over their tired old tit-for-tatty heads (which are full of wounded nostalgia over a loss of largely imaginary privilege), sadly.<br /><br />Not enough hours in the day.A. Ominoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13807400943709124236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-44538464101946799822012-05-24T17:54:58.326-05:002012-05-24T17:54:58.326-05:00"Call my argument sophistic all you want, cal..."Call my argument sophistic all you want, call me racist all you want..."<br /><br />Thanks. May I consider you rather dim, as well?A. Ominoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13807400943709124236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-55929379926250858732012-05-24T17:54:55.740-05:002012-05-24T17:54:55.740-05:00So, logically speaking, the Civil Rights Act of 19...<i>So, logically speaking, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 wasn't an "effective strategy" because people continued to be racist anyway...? </i><br /><br />No! The CRA of '64 <i>was</i> an effective strategy because it was enforced by the federal freaking government, which had the FBI and armed soldiers at its disposal.<br /><br />Saying on blogs that things should really really be different, though, that is an ineffective strategy.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09029436098418393783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-28831161609829394322012-05-24T17:53:15.211-05:002012-05-24T17:53:15.211-05:00Steven Augustine said:
See: the blackness is not ...Steven Augustine said:<br /><i><br />See: the blackness is not optional; the hoodie is worn by people of every stripe and temperament. Whereas the Nazi regalia is a deliberate symbol of impending harm to non "Aryans".</i><br /><br />The swastika is used by numerous cultures, and I'm sure that there are in fact White people who are wearing swastikas who are not Nazi's.<br /><br />Regardless, you just proved my point, that visual information based on chosen apparel and attire does influence decisions, even if you do not <i>know</i> for certain what the intentions of the person with the apparel actually are. <br /><br />Your claim of "humor" in your previous post doesn't wash, especially with this one. I did not make a comparison between Trayvon Martin, and the White people in my previous example. However, you come out and explicitly say "White People wearing this stuff are ready for war." So, if a Black person, heavily tatted, wears all red, from head to toe, with sagging pants, gold jewlery, and the like, I'm a racist for assuming he's a Blood (especially if he is in an area of town with heavy gang activity), but it's only logical to conclude from looking at the markings on a White man that he's a Nazi. I would think that you yourself would be demonstrating what is one of the basic definitions of racism: something is OK for you to apply to other people because of what they are and you are, but it's wrong for them or anyone else.<br /><br />Call my argument sophistic all you want, call me racist all you want, I don't need to a) put words in people's mouths or b) start name calling in order to cover up a poorly thought out, hypocritical argument.That One Anon...noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-89568026561894150792012-05-24T17:52:09.407-05:002012-05-24T17:52:09.407-05:00I like this guy.I like this guy.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09029436098418393783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-31787312534482884352012-05-24T17:32:26.119-05:002012-05-24T17:32:26.119-05:00erratum: "kid's"erratum: "kid's"A. Ominoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13807400943709124236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-28982102991690912362012-05-24T17:31:19.953-05:002012-05-24T17:31:19.953-05:00Oh and: please note that you compared this complex...Oh and: please note that you compared this complex pattern of deliberately threatening affectations...<br /><br />"As youŕe walking, suddenly, you see three big, muscular, bald shaven White men, walk into the street toward you. They're wearing black with red suspenders, and jewlery that clearly displays Germanic symbols, such as falcons and the German cross. They have various tattoos all over their upper arms, among them being swastikas, and flames. Two of them are carrying tire irons."<br /><br />... to a kid who was wearing a hoodie. What you're unintentionally communicating is the fact that for *you*, the kids's blackness, in and of itself, was as full of threatening signifiers as skinheads in total battle regalia. <br /><br />See: the blackness is not optional; the hoodie is worn by people of every stripe and temperament. Whereas the Nazi regalia is a deliberate symbol of impending harm to non "Aryans".<br /><br />Racist, heal thyself. Or, alternately: sophomore, grow up.A. Ominoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13807400943709124236noreply@blogger.com