tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post3861675380820925996..comments2024-03-17T20:04:18.872-05:00Comments on Indomitable | The online home of Chauncey DeVega: The Historical Record is Not Kind to Film Critic Dana Stevens' Epic White Privilege Failure of an Essay on the Movie '12 Years a Slave'Lady Zora, Chauncey DeVega, and Gordon Gartrellehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09138154899923808806noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-2387616480809753102015-02-08T01:07:28.819-06:002015-02-08T01:07:28.819-06:00Very good article. Lest we forget the 'diaboli...Very good article. Lest we forget the 'diabolical' nature of 'them' that devised and practiced these wicked atrocities. They really have not changed much.Andre Leonardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-24577914252417115442014-01-30T07:56:45.581-06:002014-01-30T07:56:45.581-06:00White privilege was enough to get me banned from t...White privilege was enough to get me banned from that stalwart of Progressive sites, Crooks and Liars. They cannot take any hint of criticism that they think implicates them and any talk of white racisms sets their dog ears up too! They don't understand that violence is their national mantra and individual psyche make-up, and they won't until they honestly assess from whence they came, which they can't!chicano2ndnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-58112578991712581972014-01-22T18:29:01.358-06:002014-01-22T18:29:01.358-06:00thanks for sharing that, I have yet to read or wat...thanks for sharing that, I have yet to read or watch 12 Years... reading that produced such a variety of emotions in me sitting in my living room with my wife and pets...<br /><br />Africans gave white Americans everything. Gave them their labor, gave them their people, gave them their food staples, their knowledge and wisdom, even gave them their love and protection at times... and so many have the nerve today to indignantly declare, 'we built this'Myshkin the Idiotnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-39598009609147564812014-01-22T18:06:11.608-06:002014-01-22T18:06:11.608-06:00Yes, Stevens only imagines herself a good white pe...Yes, Stevens only imagines herself a good white person. The fact that she cannot stomach the violence committed by "other" white people is no indication that she'd be incapable of committing it herself despite being white. <br />And did you really co-opt the feminist term "male gaze" into "white gaze?" I guess when one group hates another that's what they do.zunknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-75561835641425080482014-01-22T18:02:47.544-06:002014-01-22T18:02:47.544-06:00I read the book and then went to see the movie. He...I read the book and then went to see the movie. Here were my first thoughts:<br />http://www.chaunceydevega.com/2013/10/the-movie-12-years-slave-is-horror.html#comment-1161103697kokaneehttp://www.byebyedemocracy.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-9728021982439215102014-01-22T17:42:00.119-06:002014-01-22T17:42:00.119-06:00re: "You can tweet questions and requests to ...re: "You can tweet questions and requests to famous, and not-so-famous people?"<br /><br /><br />Yes and no. One can hide/block tweets from people that one is not following if they so choose. Famous people do that sort of thing. I don't know if Stevens qualifies.kokaneehttp://www.byebyedemocracy.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-48891189522065294142014-01-22T17:32:30.318-06:002014-01-22T17:32:30.318-06:00You can tweet questions and requests to famous, an...You can tweet questions and requests to famous, and not-so-famous people?<br /><br /><br />I have heard the Internet has brought us from 6 degrees of separation to 4 degrees of separation.Myshkin the Idiotnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-36238665918336556362014-01-22T17:30:49.282-06:002014-01-22T17:30:49.282-06:00I think what she means is the acting was a little ...I think what she means is the acting was a little over the top in some scenes or something like that, to which I can't say for sure, but the racist white folks I have been around today could certainly fit those character portrayals she described.<br /><br /><br />Her review probably would have gone a little better if it had read more like, "acting out the brutality and the inhumanity of slavery in America is a fete that is difficult to master through any art form." then provide a description of how McQueen's direction both failed and succeeded at the realism of the historical moment. What do I know? I'm not a film critic.Myshkin the Idiotnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-72296050098501781282014-01-22T17:03:31.952-06:002014-01-22T17:03:31.952-06:00I want Dana Stevens to read the book and then repo...I want Dana Stevens to read the book and then report back with her thoughts on the movie.kokaneehttp://www.byebyedemocracy.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-24558672839008983402014-01-22T16:51:21.591-06:002014-01-22T16:51:21.591-06:00Re: "Because Whiteness imagines itself as ben...Re: "Because Whiteness imagines itself as benign"<br /><br />"Rape and indiscriminate violence are the legacies of the white conquest. Soldiers on the western frontier, who passed captive squaws from tent to tent, joked that 'Indian women rape easy.'<br />..<br />Major Scott Anthony witnessed the murder in the Washita raid of a terrified three-year-old child: 'I saw one man get off his horse at a distance of about seventy-five yards and draw up his rifle and fire.' " —Chris Hedges, "Days of Destruction, Days of Revolt."<br /><br />re: "...Dana Stevens enjoys a privileged position as a major film critic. With <br />this position comes a responsibility to make a fair effort at telling <br />the truth."<br /><br />Exactly right. Where was her editor in this? If it's not truth, it's propaganda.<br /><br />re: "Race and arbitrary distinctions of skin color are means of legitimating such a social order."<br /><br />The white men beat their wives. The white wives beat their children. The all beat their slaves. That's the nature of an authoritarian society. I think it's clear where the bulk of the blame lies.<br /><br />------------<br /><br />Have you heard of Clyde Kennard?<br /><a href="http://www.popularresistance.org/why-we-should-care-about-clyde-kennard/" rel="nofollow">Why We Should Care About Clyde Kennard</a><br /><br />Good read:<br /><a href="http://www.thenation.com/article/177825/reading-melville-post-911-america" rel="nofollow">Reading Melville in Post-911 America</a> "The author's half-forgotten masterpiece, <i>Benito Cereno</i>, provides fascinating insight into issues of slavery, freedom, individualism—and Islamophobia."kokaneehttp://www.byebyedemocracy.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-40664631678718107752014-01-22T14:49:32.823-06:002014-01-22T14:49:32.823-06:00well to her credit she replied predictably on Twit...well to her credit she replied predictably on Twitter w. she wasn't saying that the movie was inaccurate--which she clearly was. and then followed up w. how she doesn't like having these conversations online (of course after giving a predictable complement). I hope that she is busy and when she gets a chance will properly respond and reflect. Doubtful though.chauncey devegahttp://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-46917304098059657812014-01-22T14:24:07.420-06:002014-01-22T14:24:07.420-06:00thank you so much for this too, chauncey. but i re...thank you so much for this too, chauncey. but i read this and in the end still felt weary. not because of the truth telling- which inspired me as a historian of this very period. but rather because of the fact that it falls on *purposefully* deaf ears. this historical evidence, while masterfully marshaled, likely still will not move someone like stevens. because as myshkin said above, while you are willing to do the intellectual work to back up your arguments about the violence of the slave trade and slavery, she gave an anti-intellectual, visceral set of arguments about her feelings on the film. and her whiteness, femaleness, educatedness, and position at a major publication allows her the leeway to be "right" about what she said to the majority of her readers. despite probably never having read any scholarly work on this history to know just how much mcqueen's film only scratched the surface of what enslaved people went thru here and throughout the americas for almost 4 centuries of bondage...<br /><br /><br />we live in a current moment where every person, place, thing and concept in this universe can be manipulated for easier consumption and for the sole benefit of the consumer. if stevens wants a kinder, gentler representation of slavery, then all she has to do is call for it and she'd be well within her rights to do so. damn what actual slaves and slave masters have left behind to the contrary. she's more interested in walking out of a movie feeling good. and so i love what you are trying to do here. Im just not sure she's worth doing it for.Introspectivenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-9866205188801985092014-01-22T13:15:55.699-06:002014-01-22T13:15:55.699-06:00Since Hollywood is all remake crazy these days, pe...Since Hollywood is all remake crazy these days, perhaps a redo of Disney's "Song of the South" would be more to Dana Stevens' liking. It's how slavery looks through eyes of little girls who've ingested Adam rich sea slugs (Bioshock 2 reference, if you don't get, you don't get it). Oooh lets play a casting game! I'll start:<br />Uncle Remus should be played by...Morgan Freeman<br />Now somebody cast roles for Johnny, and Ginny...KissedByTheSunnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-75810750434101682982014-01-22T06:48:37.106-06:002014-01-22T06:48:37.106-06:00Again... Stevens calls this film "Body horror...Again... Stevens calls this film "Body horror"? You are absolutely right that 12 Years A Slave was basically a very mild hint of what went on during slavery. Personally I avoid all horror movies and can easily be made to flinch by any sort of gore. I watched this entire film with my eyes wide open. This should be an indication of how entirely bearable the visual part of this viewing experience was. Yet this sensitive soul makes it sound like some "Salo" style assault on her senses! If she doesn't know better about the nature of a slave society, shouldn't she (as a professional critic of visual media) know better about how to evaluate a movie? If it's horror at all, it is psychological horror.<br /><br />To come back to the gender aspect for a moment. Notice that she also declares it's over the top how Fassbender's character is portrayed as drunkenly prowling the plantation, looking for "someone" to abuse. "Someone." Hmm. <br /><br />All I can see is a reviewer objecting to a movie on grounds that make no sense on a purely technical/genre level, while simultaneously running like hell from any critical evaluation of the sexual politics embedded in it. <br /><br /><br />Or perhaps, as you suggest, just yet another white person who responds to black suffering with "I cannot bear to have such depression around me." ... like yet another character she didn't bother to mention in the review.!noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-8611317465691794182014-01-22T05:27:33.031-06:002014-01-22T05:27:33.031-06:00Here you go, doing all the work for the Dana Steve...Here you go, doing all the work for the Dana Stevens' of the world. The emotional and intellectual heavy lifting. <br /><br /><br />She probably couldn't even bring herself to finish reading some of those accounts described, it would harm her sensibilities too much, she would cringe and look away in horror. She couldn't dare damage her emotional well-being with the thought of torture of black bodies by white hands, those very hands have to feed her mouth.<br /><br /><br />She would turn away and wring her hands, maybe say, "Fine! It was atrocious! What do you want ME to do about it!?" Her eyes would swell with tears and she wouldn't be able to keep looking for long. And she can just walk away. Maybe she would come back, maybe she would stay. <br /><br />I can barely imagine the psychology of such torture victims.. let alone the experience of such torture.Myshkin the Idiotnoreply@blogger.com