tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post3825491741151662359..comments2024-03-17T20:04:18.872-05:00Comments on Indomitable | The online home of Chauncey DeVega: The White Ghetto is Not a Land of Milk and Honey. It is a Place Where They Use Soda For Money.Lady Zora, Chauncey DeVega, and Gordon Gartrellehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09138154899923808806noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-18940841462087674942014-02-01T11:44:10.856-06:002014-02-01T11:44:10.856-06:00A Fox News "special," hosted by our latt...A Fox News "special," hosted by our latter day Father Coughlin Bill O'Reilly, taking a "Boys Town" approach would be unintentionally hilarious, as they'd try to uplift and lionize the dentally challenged denizens of the white ghetto as ignorant yet somehow wise, noble "real Americans," carrying on just fine, free from government dependence. <br /><br />Segments on them going about their daily lives even as they convert their "draw" into pop would be portrayed as pull yourself up by your bootstraps industriousness, a turning of the screw against the stupidity of "big government" that just couldn't think to pay them in pop in the first damned place. <br /><br /><br />Of course, this would be contrasted, as only O'Reilly and Fox could, against what would be called "welfare fraud" in the "inner city," as a glorious confirmation of the "personal responsibility" that is inherent in this salt of the earth culture.Gable1111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-17779790308521941512014-01-31T22:14:36.288-06:002014-01-31T22:14:36.288-06:00When is Fox News and Bill O'Reilly going to th...When is Fox News and Bill O'Reilly going to the White Ghetto? Would make for good TV.chauncey devegahttp://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-12602417989572731282014-01-31T21:30:25.910-06:002014-01-31T21:30:25.910-06:00Yes, ironies abound here. The writer seems to be s...Yes, ironies abound here. The writer seems to be surprised somewhat at what he's seeing, that white folk are actually living like this. And I think that's because poverty has traditionally been sold as something that is an attribute of non-whites, e.g. they are poor because they are naturally lazy and lack the industriousness inherent in white people. <br /><br />Secondly, what is seen here as “condescension” would be seen as justified as that’s just how they are if this was written about “the black ghetto.” Imagine how the floodgates of hatred would open up at the knowledge that somebody black was “on the draw getting $3,000 a month.” <br /><br />So not only do I have no more sympathy for them than I would for anyone who is poor, but this is also just an object lesson of how the poor in general are treated, and how race is applied to “flavor” that treatment. In short, being black and poor is still worse than being white and poor. And they make sure of that.Gable1111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-20331594191642193112014-01-31T06:12:08.643-06:002014-01-31T06:12:08.643-06:00I think what some people need to realize is that w...I think what some people need to realize is that we don't need solidarity with white people, we need solidarity with people of color. <br /><br /><br />Using this Macklemore conflict as an example, my friends wanted me to say, "Hey, Macklemore is doing great things for POC and gay Americans, leave him alone." Whereas the author of the piece was saying, "Queer POC voices are marginalized in dominant culture while white people are heralded as examples of saviors and this needs to stop. WE need recognition for our services."<br /><br /><br />I think this is why I read some authors will choose to work exclusively with white people because they usually stifle themselves around people of color and don't fully work through their prejudices and ignorance. In my experience, working through these things with white people is exhausting and time consuming, I totally understand why a lot of POC don't want to spend their time coddling white folk through Racism 101. <br /><br /><br />Reading through "Yo, Is This Racist" is giving me the confidence to just say "Shut up!" when I am confronted by subtler bigotry, or just walking away.<br /><br /><br />(I've never listened to Macklemore before, I looked him up this morning. I would call that hipster hop. I prefer Public Enemy, Grandmaster Flash, Wu Tang, KRS One, GZA, Tribe Called Quest, Mos Def, and some other artists.)Myshkin the Idiotnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-44047043120099798312014-01-31T01:31:12.304-06:002014-01-31T01:31:12.304-06:00Do those new middle class whites get how they are ...Do those new middle class whites get how they are being hustled and how tenuous their hold on their new class status is?chauncey devegahttp://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-22948898196647737482014-01-31T01:30:40.476-06:002014-01-31T01:30:40.476-06:00No comment on crap rappers named Mackelmore who i...No comment on crap rappers named Mackelmore who is taken up as some type of post racial progressive hero. <br /><br />White folks have had 4 centuries to work through their racial issues. There has been much change. There remains much to be done. What if folks get tired of teaching and being so patient with them?chauncey devegahttp://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-69596618561588218522014-01-31T01:29:22.535-06:002014-01-31T01:29:22.535-06:00I wonder though. American popular culture is black...I wonder though. American popular culture is black American culture and has been historically. The depictions of black and brown people in popular culture is in many ways very negative. Are these rural whites--and others--learning about "black people" from stereotypes, and how is this going to play out long term?chauncey devegahttp://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-25928536203772107502014-01-30T20:37:46.702-06:002014-01-30T20:37:46.702-06:00As someone from an overwhelmingly white rural area...As someone from an overwhelmingly white rural area with pockets of intense poverty I totally agree with your statements about class dynamics and voting. The middle class in these areas is scared shitless of losing their position, and spends a lot of their energy kicking down on those below them. My relatives who have managed to climb from the working class into the middle class have tended to go from being Democrats to very conservative Republicans, both on economic and "values" issues. The rural white middle class is the absolute backbone of the Tea Party. <br /><br /><br />However, while generational change is afoot, I am not as optimistic as DanF. My home state of Nebraska is becoming less white, in large part due to recent immigrations from Asia and Latin America. In many communities this has prompted an ugly backlash and plenty of resentment from less wealthy whites. The elites back home have nefariously used the immigration issue to get poor whites to focus their anger at brown skinned people whose economic struggles are similar to their own. I fear that strategy will continue to pay off.Werner Herzog's Bearnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-42429888299856962122014-01-30T13:52:28.687-06:002014-01-30T13:52:28.687-06:00I think most of the killings after 1948 were by or...I think most of the killings after 1948 were by organized security forces and often they took place in prisons. The death under torture of Steven Biko being a good example.j.ottopohlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-64964179295437381782014-01-30T13:49:22.497-06:002014-01-30T13:49:22.497-06:00In the 1930s and 1940s the worry was about urban w...In the 1930s and 1940s the worry was about urban white poverty and the fact that poor Whites had to compete with Blacks for jobs. So they imposed restrictions on Blacks coming to the cities and taking certain kinds of jobs.j.ottopohlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-42977953122575205352014-01-30T13:29:26.277-06:002014-01-30T13:29:26.277-06:00I've read a little about the Natives Land Act ...I've read a little about the Natives Land Act of 1913 in South Africa or Bantu Land Act. Apparently it restricted land ownership of native Africans to approximately 13% of the total land area of South Africa and was in place until the 1990's.<br /><br /><br />The United States, from what I know, has assisted white people in accumulating and maintaining wealth at every step in our history.Myshkin the Idiotnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-82425747583519636712014-01-30T12:43:19.634-06:002014-01-30T12:43:19.634-06:00What a very useful comment about S.Africa vs. Amer...What a very useful comment about S.Africa vs. American Apartheid. I am reading a book that tries to explain lynching culture in the U.S. South as compared to the lack of such formal ritualistic violence in S.Africa. One of the author's points is exactly yours--how culture and class were used to unify whites against blacks. But, S. Africa had a challenge in that the whites were outnumbered, the Christian logic about how to organize their society and the hangover from British norms about class and labor. Very interesting read. <br /><br />In S. Africa the violence was tied to labor and black resistance of course to white supremacy. But, whites would usually just take a "difficult" black out into the field and shoot them in the head as opposed to some spectacular lynching ritual. The psychology of State violence is disturbing.chauncey devegahttp://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-26470288538875435212014-01-30T08:12:22.512-06:002014-01-30T08:12:22.512-06:00"Empowered by white skin privilege, would the..."Empowered by white skin privilege, would the white poor fan the fire if they thought that it would burn black and brown people, and bring the metaphorical house down on the latter's heads?" <br /><br /><br />The olds, yes. The youngs, no. Gen X and up have witnessed the exodus of factory jobs and consolidation of agrarian production which has continually chipped away at their communities standard of living (which was never all that high). On an abstract level, they're probably OK with burning it all to the ground and starting over because they think it would probably improve their chances (they already believe they're wiley enough to live off the land). To the youngs, it's shitty, it's always been shitty, and they don't harbor the same levels of animosity with people of color. Thanks to the unprecedented distribution of music, movies, TV, individual content, social networking, a black president, people of color on most local news networks, and in every sports context except maybe skiing - even if rural whites don't know any black or brown people, they are accustomed to seeing them in places of power and respect each and every day. They've learned the dog whistles, but they don't prick their ears in the same way. I would bet they lean on the side of solidarity push comes to shove.DanFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-53398547686758675092014-01-30T06:49:55.907-06:002014-01-30T06:49:55.907-06:00The problem of White Poverty in South Africa which...The problem of White Poverty in South Africa which was predominantly an Afrikaner rather than English problem was one of the issues that propelled the Nats into power in 1948 with their program of moving from segregation to apartheid. The Nats were largely successful in eliminating White poverty in South Africa through a redistribution of resources from non-Whites to Whites including poor Whites. This was one of the fundamental bases for the support of apartheid. There were material as well as ideological benefits in it for poor Afrikaners. It also effected the way apartheid was justified. Because so many poor Afrikaners did badly on IQ tests, the Nats rejected genetic explanations in favor of environmental ones and justified their racism along essentialist cultural lines rather than biological ones. Thus the "scientific racism" of the Nazis was officially rejected in favor of a Christian nationalism that emphasized volk and culture.j.ottopohlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-83900295763057307102014-01-30T05:20:50.708-06:002014-01-30T05:20:50.708-06:00Great piece, great eye on National Review there. O...Great piece, great eye on National Review there. Often in my conversations with white folk about rural white poverty, there is a defensiveness taken similar to what you see in those comments. They don't like being lumped together categorically, while they may rely on the same narrative for black and brown urban poverty if they don't take the time to examine their internalized racial prejudices.<br /><br /><br />I shared a piece with friends yesterday about why Mackelmore isn't the great savior of gay rights activism in hip hop (it was actually about something much bigger, but was reduced to this narrative). It was met with some vociferous defenses of Mackelmore by some of my white liberal friends. White racial resentment doesn't like being called out for the privilege that whiteness grants.<br /><br /><br />I think it's important to keep getting perspectives from people of color. As long as white folks can handle it (which they have shown they have a really hard time handling it, I have read things and suddenly felt defensive and resentful which some self contemplation helped me work through), if white folks can handle working through their racial resentment, the nation might get to a better place of understanding the similarities and differences between the white and black, red, and brown lower classes.Myshkin the Idiotnoreply@blogger.com