tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post3783602552165379259..comments2024-03-17T20:04:18.872-05:00Comments on Indomitable | The online home of Chauncey DeVega: ISIS in Iraq is Not the Rave on Cobra Island: What Advice Would You Give Barack Obama About Resolving the Crisis?Lady Zora, Chauncey DeVega, and Gordon Gartrellehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09138154899923808806noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-42752289835007295192014-07-06T09:50:00.412-05:002014-07-06T09:50:00.412-05:00Stay out, for a couple of reasons;
1) Iraq is an ...Stay out, for a couple of reasons;<br /><br />1) Iraq is an artificial creation not a natural society. The sooner it falls apart, the sooner people can build societies they actually want to live in.<br /><br />2) By intervening, you'll be picking a side and giving people motivation to hate you.<br /><br />3) Also, ditch Afghanistan. See point 1.disqus_ldTeP6rX6Vnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-27865333044642546192014-06-18T13:20:25.973-05:002014-06-18T13:20:25.973-05:00Stay out.
There is no US interest at stake. The US...Stay out.<br />There is no US interest at stake. The US has already made things worse. <br />http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/06/17/iraq-will-the-neocons-get-away-with-it-again/Shady Gradyhttp://theurbanpolitico.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-44592336500426906782014-06-18T12:58:04.296-05:002014-06-18T12:58:04.296-05:00One thing that I learned through economists at the...One thing that I learned through economists at the World Bank is that at the root of all so-called ethnic conflicts is really about controlling the source of a country's wealth. In order to fight, an insurgency needs to pay for its manpower, weapons, equipment, food, and other materiel support.<br /><br /><br />In Iraq, the central government, meaning the Shia, control the oil wealth. The oil wealth in the country comes from two different regions--the Shia south and the Kurdish north. The Sunnis in the center were able to control the wealth because Saddam was Sunni and came from Tikrit in the center of the country.<br /><br /><br />I would tell the President, if you want political stability and you want all Iraqis to have a stake in the future of their country, then democratize the oil wealth. Give every adult, man and woman, irrespective of ethnic background and religion, a royalty check from the oil wealth. Of course, the central and regional governments need a significant portion of the oil wealth, maybe 80 percent like the Norwegian government, but spread it out to the people<br /><br /><br />With an economic stake in the country, people will favor political stability. With their own capital, they will build their own businesses and start their own schools and mutual aid societies.<br /><br /><br />The Sunnis do not feel they have an economic stake or a political stake in the country. Without fundamental democracy of wealth and power, it is a sectarian conflict we should now stay out of.James Estrada-Scaminaci IIInoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-83557702371034502772014-06-18T11:23:04.265-05:002014-06-18T11:23:04.265-05:00It seems as if ISIS came out of nowhere, but they ...It seems as if ISIS came out of nowhere, but they didn't. This seems like a group formed long before, from disparate regions of the area, in close communication, well trained, well financed. They wear face coverings. This is a violent group that has members willing and ready to kill, kill, kill. Where are their families? Do they have wives and children? How many secret members are part of this group? How do they recruit? How do they coordinate and communicate? Do they have a centralized base of operations??.Llaloba Solitarianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-29380496645516482982014-06-18T10:34:18.777-05:002014-06-18T10:34:18.777-05:00America's exceptionalism is its creativity - w...America's exceptionalism is its creativity - we have a lot to fkc yeah about - but causing chronic chaos is not creative, it's creative impotence - it's trying to live up to an unobtainable, sophmoric ideal. In art school many students start by trying to imitate William DeKooning's abstract expressionism - they make a mess, waste a lot of paint, a lot of hours and energy but they never get the inspiration to create order from that mess - that inspiration belonged exclusively to DeKooning. Trying to live up to him as an ideal drove a lot of students crazy. Being creative means listening to, deriving inspiration from, the inherent voice of the medium and bringing shape to the unknown; on the world stage, a modern, muti polar world is the creative unknown - listen to and be inspired by the medium of current events. <br />America, as a creative dynamo will be an inspiration to follow - fck yeah!craignoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-89228570861240666202014-06-18T08:51:57.589-05:002014-06-18T08:51:57.589-05:00We are talking around a framework of unquestioned ...We are talking around a framework of unquestioned assumptions: about the non-reciprocral right of the US or "The West"'s to interfere in other nations' affairs; about the "US or "The West"'s non-reciprocal right to use violence in the world; about the right of some nations to have "security-at-all-costs", even when those costs include violence or interference against other nations (see domino theory, Vietnam, War-on-Terror). This lopsided conceptual framework is an analogy to "White Supremacy" on the International scale. It also used to be called "The White Man's Burden". <br /><br />There is a reason that Martin Luther King named America's three great evils as Racism, Materialism and Militarism and stated that the US is "the greatest purveyor of violence in the world". I think that more progressives today need to remember the familial relationship between neo-colonialist delusions about foreign affairs, and the insanity of racialism/racism here at home.balitwilightnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-14656368629796065312014-06-18T08:25:02.444-05:002014-06-18T08:25:02.444-05:00The only thing we have to offer Iraq at this point...The only thing we have to offer Iraq at this point is more bombs. Pretty sure that's not going to help. I don't think our credibility is strong enough to bring warring factions together to negotiate - so I'd probably be working with the Kurds and Turkey on working out their differences and attempt to establish a stable, democratic Kurdish state. You reduce your Iraqi problem by a third, and perhaps create a buffer state for Turkey (I say "perhaps" as the Turks and the Kurds have at least a century of bitterness to work through - but this is a moment when their own self-interests can be set to align with being peaceable neighbors). <br /><br /><br />The Sunni will not want their own state as their historical region is void of oil. Shia and Sunni will be in an Iraqi cage match to the death I fear.DanFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-60692851541289320622014-06-18T07:11:41.631-05:002014-06-18T07:11:41.631-05:00Who want to listen to that old windbag who thinks ...Who want to listen to that old windbag who thinks he's so smart!kokaneehttp://www.byebyedemocracy.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-31718228719976056952014-06-18T07:09:17.502-05:002014-06-18T07:09:17.502-05:00I think, and this is just pure speculation, that t...I think, and this is just pure speculation, that the PTB have chosen to ignore and ridicule Chomsky rather than fight him. i.e. He's boring, verbose, monotone, hippie, old and out of touch, intellectual snob, etc. He also has a duplicity about him that is not a threat to the PTB (It's the price one pays for some mainstream recognition.) For example, "Obama is a war criminal." and "If I lived in a swing state, I would vote for Obama."kokaneehttp://www.byebyedemocracy.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-34252620841160985202014-06-18T04:28:40.908-05:002014-06-18T04:28:40.908-05:00No photos required when only a small percentage of...No photos required when only a small percentage of people know who he is and an even smaller percentage of people have read or listened to him. Ugh.iamfantastikatenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-55154727903128069452014-06-18T03:25:01.838-05:002014-06-18T03:25:01.838-05:00Chomsky is on point. Do you ever ask yourself how ...Chomsky is on point. Do you ever ask yourself how has been allowed to tell the truth for so long and not discredited by the powers that be? Who does he have photos of?chauncey devegahttp://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-66977021554093187472014-06-18T03:24:21.838-05:002014-06-18T03:24:21.838-05:00good advice. how do we then counter the fkc yeah! ...good advice. how do we then counter the fkc yeah! American Exceptionalism crowd? Countries have no friends only interests. At this point, and I have no doubt it is likely happening, I would be chatting with Al-Qaeda proper about how to deal with ISIS.chauncey devegahttp://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-52887697899855876632014-06-18T01:01:59.732-05:002014-06-18T01:01:59.732-05:00We made the mistake of supporting the rebels again...We made the mistake of supporting the rebels against the Syrian government, now those rebels, with US arms and training are the "S" in ISIS. Now that the Syrian government is too strong to overthrow, thanks to the US for having spared it from attack, ISIS is going after the weaker Iraq. If I had the ear of Obama I would advocate assisting both the legitimate Syrian government to take care of the "S" in ISIS and assist Iran in taking care of the "I". With no other motive other than to avoid chaos in the region, and if that means letting Iran become the regional hegemon, then so be it. A multi polar world is the future- the US should work cooperatively with other strong nations in making this transition.Craignoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-10522473482624420362014-06-17T23:57:25.810-05:002014-06-17T23:57:25.810-05:00I am no dove. I am a hawk (within reason) who foll...I am no dove. I am a hawk (within reason) who follows Clausewitz's <br />dictum that war is the continuance of politics by other means. War <br />should not be an end in and of itself.<br /><br />It's not about doves and hawks. The test is which country is the aggressor and which country gets invaded. Chomsky on just that:<br />“The public is frightened into believing we have to defend ourselves,” <br />Chomsky said. “This is not entirely false. The military system generates<br /> forces that will be harmful to us. Take Obama’s terrorist drone <br />campaign, the biggest terrorist campaign in history. This program <br />generates potential terrorists faster than it destroys suspects. You can<br /> see it now in Iraq. Go back to the Nuremburg judgments. Aggression was defined as the supreme international crime. It differed <br />from other war crimes in that it encompasses all the evil that follows. <br />The U.S. and British invasion of Iraq is a textbook case of aggression. <br />By the standards of Nuremberg they [the British and U.S. leaders] would <br />all be hanged. And one of the crimes they committed was to ignite the <br />Sunni and Shiite conflict.” —http://www.truthdig.com/report/page2/american_socrates_20140615<br /><br />Iraq is a failed state, one created by the poor decision-making of George Bush the Younger's administration.<br />Three days after 9/11 congress granted war powers to the executive branch abdicating their responsibility that only congress can declare war. Just like Chancellor Palpatine:<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEOn_1wQJ5k&feature=youtu.be&t=3m27s<br /><br />Barbara Lee was the sole congressperson who voted against it:<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh_sxilhyV0<br /><br />The AUMF was followed by the Patriot Act in the next month and in the following year congress passed the Iraq War Resolution.<br /><br />At the time, the Senate was controlled by the Democratic Party. So not just the Republicans.<br /><br />Left wing media is just as culpable as the right wing media in beating the drums of war. Chelsea Manning's oped in the NY Times makes that very clear: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/15/opinion/sunday/chelsea-manning-the-us-militarys-campaign-against-media-freedom.html?_r=0<br /><br />As does Peter Van Buren:<br />http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175856/tomgram%3A_peter_van_buren%2C_rip%2C_the_bill_of_rights/<br /><br />If I had President Obama's ear, I would tell him what I would have told Bush Jr. in 2003: We should not use military force in Iraq unless it is done as part of a UN intervention. I would also say to him that it's probably time to allow the people of the Middle East to create their own borders along faction lines instead of the west's "arbitrary" assigned borders enforced upon them.<br /><br />Are you sure you want me back?kokaneehttp://www.byebyedemocracy.org/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-53783369139057492322014-06-17T22:50:34.999-05:002014-06-17T22:50:34.999-05:00I would repeat what some of your readers have said...I would repeat what some of your readers have said: the "U.S and West" should leave Iraq alone. They have less legitimate right to "contain" ISIS than a long list of potentially aggrieved nations have to contain "Obama, Bush, Blair" etc and our own neo-imperialists by lobbing bombs at us.<br /><br /><br />If the "US and West" want to assist, they should focus on refugee aid and support for mediation in impartial forums (if any) that are acceptable to all warring factions.<br /><br /><br />What is happening in Iraq is a ferocious uprising of Sunni populations that have been viciously oppressed by a puppet Shia dictator (Malaki) that the "US and West" propped up over the corpses of 500,000 Iraqi civilians. ISIS is just one small part off a broad and loose association of Sunni groups who have joined against what they see as a common enemy (a repressive illegitimate sectarian Iraqi government propped up by invasion and occupation). ISIS itself originated in Al-Zarqawi's "Al-Qaeda in Iraq" group: a vicious insurgency whose target was the American soldiers occupying their Sunni lands and their perceived collaborators in Iraq - not Wall Street or Kansas or San Francisco. In fact, Bin-Laden's Al-Qaeda organisation split with AQI (Al-Qaeda in Iraq) because of the latter group's nationalist focus.<br /><br /><br />In other words, all this bombing and occupying and invading and corrupting and propping up of dictators that the "US and West" does IS the problem. The "US and West" should stay in the West and leave the determination of the destiny of the lands of the East to those who live in those lands.balitwilightnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-3077108126011360432014-06-17T14:04:41.037-05:002014-06-17T14:04:41.037-05:00Thinking the US should do something about Iraq is ...Thinking the US should do something about Iraq is part of the problem. It created this mess. It cannot fix it. US policy in the region is inherently destructive, false, cold to the real life/death concerns of the people in the region. Despite the horrors of what's happening (and I lay responsibility at the feet of the US in many ways), there is no humanitarian solution involving the US.<br /><br />Americans need to stop acting entitled to lord over other countries, other peoples..<br /><br />I follow with two links, one an overview of the situation I wrote for another site. Second, a really interesting statement from Iraqi trade unionists that makes the viewpoint of the anti-sectarian Iraqi on the street clear.<br /><br />first:<br />http://kasamaproject.org/threads/entry/new-iraq-crisis-the-people-suffer-us-vultures-circle<br /><br />second:<br />http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/18143/on-recent-events-in-mosul-and-other-cities-in-iraqIshhttp://thecahokian.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.com