tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post3492801841596886143..comments2024-03-22T20:34:13.792-05:00Comments on Indomitable | The online home of Chauncey DeVega: Saturday Afternoon Thinking Project: Is Islam a Religion of Peace? Chris Hitchens Versus Tariq RamadanLady Zora, Chauncey DeVega, and Gordon Gartrellehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09138154899923808806noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-35327309193640452762010-10-25T23:30:24.285-05:002010-10-25T23:30:24.285-05:00Would never attempt to prove religion. For two re...Would never attempt to prove religion. For two reasons: proof is a limited construct and only one way of knowing and two religion or spirituality although able to flow concurrently with science, is not meant to exist within its confines.<br /><br />BUT, I would say that sociologically and medically, we can discuss empirical phenomena regarding people's religious experiences and beliefs. We've learned that whatever folks believe have important consequences for individuals and societies. Thus, we must contend with the inherent power in religion/spirituality for the benefit of the common good, the public sphere and human experience.<br /><br />I liked this post, http://www.alternet.org/story/140993/can_engaging_with_a_radical_religion_help_save_progressives_from_self-indulgence/?page=2<br /><br />Cheers!Diedrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08496267334377965053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-35985776662376427342010-10-14T00:50:39.248-05:002010-10-14T00:50:39.248-05:00http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/10/09/is-...http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/10/09/is-islam-a-religion-of-peace-chris-hitchens-versus-tariq-ramadan/<br /><br />Good luck on your exams!chaunceydevegahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09652406326490873337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-16175759138263220442010-10-12T20:51:51.208-05:002010-10-12T20:51:51.208-05:00Help me find the alternet conversation please. As...Help me find the alternet conversation please. As far as your response, thank you and I'll get back to you as soon as I finish this blasted mid-term!Diedrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08496267334377965053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-54779235231591155212010-10-11T22:24:43.146-05:002010-10-11T22:24:43.146-05:00Thanks for chiming in...could here the crickets. T...Thanks for chiming in...could here the crickets. There is a good conversation over at Alternet where this is cross posted.<br /><br />Sure, I can play the Foucault Truth/Power argument about truth as a function of power and the framing of memory. But, as a practical matter, please "prove" the "truth" of religion to me. <br /><br />This is akin to the debate between creationists and evolutionary biologists (I forgot the scientist involved but it was featured in Nature or Science magazine). The scientist refused to show up for the debate because you can't debate mythology with empirical rigor or facts. There are no terms for debate.<br /><br />This is what Hitch gets at so well--and why I like Ramadan--he is fighting with one hand behind his back because his priors are indemonstrable...either about the divinity of a book or his personal God and prophet. Thus, the appeal to the mysteries of faith.<br /><br />No?chaunceydevegahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09652406326490873337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-3309719513925941192010-10-11T21:25:38.886-05:002010-10-11T21:25:38.886-05:00So you are privileging the scientific method with ...So you are privileging the scientific method with its notion of provability and objectivism over the subjective as a measure of truth. Surely Critical Theorists would cringe in their graves or in my case on my couch. Debate does not have have to end in a clear winner or loser. It can serve to clarify thought and to bring alternate voices from the margins into the public domain. This in itself if a worthy endeavor, particularly in these polarized times of tea parties and ignorance.<br /><br />The public square USED to be a place where we could hold contradictions and forward the possibilities of our democracy by discussing many messy facets of our human lives. Without this, it becomes a place for sound bites and stone throwing. We can't limit our parameters without losing the fullness of who we are and the different realities that make up this world.<br /><br />Plus, western ideas about reason and notions of truth have been used to limit the freedoms and legitimacy of too many folks' perspective for me to buy into empirical truth and supposed rationality as trump. Post-structuralists give us reason to pause and think more deeply about varied perspectives, suppositions and voices.Diedrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08496267334377965053noreply@blogger.com