tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post2904311319911940318..comments2024-03-17T20:04:18.872-05:00Comments on Indomitable | The online home of Chauncey DeVega: 20 Things I Learned About Racism When I Dared to Talk About ISIS and the Lynchings of Black AmericansLady Zora, Chauncey DeVega, and Gordon Gartrellehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09138154899923808806noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-46127267447658111232015-02-13T22:09:29.097-06:002015-02-13T22:09:29.097-06:00You can't claim "truth" if you are u...You can't claim "truth" if you are unwilling to argue it on even ground. Until we can validate that "truth" is being presented, or at least that an honest argument is possible, then everything else is irrelevant.<br /><br />That is why you will lose.Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-23582692152953357882015-02-13T15:37:13.707-06:002015-02-13T15:37:13.707-06:00I salute your articles on the real America. We wer...I salute your articles on the real America. We were supposed to forget that they've done the same, and much, much worse, than any 'terrorists' they may come against. In fact, the turmoil that the U.S. thinks their suffering today is only that Karma returning to bite them in the posterior for all of the horrors perpetrated around the world on people of color.Ms. J. S. Butlerhttp://newdispweb.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-48071089081903858472015-02-13T08:39:38.843-06:002015-02-13T08:39:38.843-06:00Thanks for linking the article. Here is a video a...Thanks for linking the article. Here is a video about the President*s remarks and the reactions to them:<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7pAKCs3GV0Courtney H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-68721910218419659952015-02-11T22:43:03.656-06:002015-02-11T22:43:03.656-06:00Isn't there a derailment or racism Bingo card?...Isn't there a derailment or racism Bingo card? I'll see if I can find it.Lkekehttp://tvgeekingout.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-78852865399280504502015-02-11T17:04:09.903-06:002015-02-11T17:04:09.903-06:00If you're pissing them off you're on the r...If you're pissing them off you're on the right track. Just like all the famous women were bad girls, all the great black men were "uppity" if you'll pardon my language. <br /><br />Stick it especially to the fifth columnist racist liberals because they're enablers to much worse people: like the staff at arkham asylum when they let the joker seemingly walk out.Dan Kasteraynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-44925751146300131362015-02-11T17:01:28.883-06:002015-02-11T17:01:28.883-06:00Fuck it Chauncey, go nuclear. Martin Luther King m...Fuck it Chauncey, go nuclear. Martin Luther King made history by pissing people off. He was black while being left of Karl Marx. With any luck white racist assholes will sing your praises a century after you're deadDan Kasteraynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-29586960753929693692015-02-11T11:56:59.492-06:002015-02-11T11:56:59.492-06:00"White supremacy is one of the most powerful ..."White supremacy is one of the most powerful social forces and ideologies in the United States"<br /><br />"Online spaces are a great lens into white supremacy because they are a type of public arena where individuals can drop the mask of social conformity and desirability, revealing their private thoughts and true selves."<br /><br /><br /><br />Don't these two comments contradict each other? If what you refer to as 'white supremacy' is so powerful then why do people only reveal their 'white supremacy' when they are anonymous on the internet?Snakes on a Carnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-35353743213790509532015-02-11T09:20:21.647-06:002015-02-11T09:20:21.647-06:00I'm white, Nautim, and I'm interested in w...I'm white, Nautim, and I'm interested in where you come from, because you honestly come off as one of those sincere white folks with the best of intentions who really has no idea how you're perpetuating the systematic disenfranchisement of black people and other people of color. <br /><br /><br />I'm glad that you're posting here, not only because you're really giving a great example of what Chauncey was talking about, but because I think that, in this forum, you're really going to get the real talk that you need.officer twuntnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-80959263355741463522015-02-11T08:45:52.478-06:002015-02-11T08:45:52.478-06:00The Americas is two very large continents, and was...The Americas is two very large continents, and was, at no point, entirely colonized by the British, however much the British wished that it was. But if we are to return this country (I assume you mean the United States OF America) to its rightful owners, the British are really far down the list. Thankfully, the people of the First Nations (Not Native Americans, just as the people who lived in my home before me are not "Native Twunts") don't have a concept of land ownership, but rather stewardship for the next generations, which is, I think, a much better way to look at it than deeds and trusts. <br /><br />The United States of America is also not a former British colony. It is a hodgepodge of colonies and stolen land. I live in The Land Of Flowers, which, contrary to popular beleif, is not an English colony. People speak Spanish here, and have spoken Spanish here long before people spoke English here.officer twuntnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-44933038626888539952015-02-11T08:37:09.747-06:002015-02-11T08:37:09.747-06:00As a honkey ass cracker myself, I can tell you tha...As a honkey ass cracker myself, I can tell you that white folks make me giggle. Working on a campaign, speaking about the Haitian demographic, I mentioned that, a strong people, they launched the only successful, sustained slave revolt in history. A Hispanic (also the beneficiaries and the originators or the trans atlantic slave trade,) woman gasped and said "I can't believe you said that," as if it was offensive. My Creole speaking sister spoke up, that it was, in fact, a source of justified pride.<br /><br />We live in a country where only a minority of black Americans (and an immeasurably tiny number of whites,) seriously discusses reparations, and even fewer know that we already paid reparations for slavery, to the slave owners, for lost property.<br /><br />But yes, less than 50 years ago, MLK was alive and marching and in jail, but jim crow and lynchings are ancient history. Never mind the lynchings that continue to be ruled as suicides. Never mind the continued housing, employment, educational and legal discrimination. Racism is over, and no white man alive benefits from being white. Morgan Freeman said it, it must be true.officer twuntnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-60824855110262284332015-02-10T15:51:26.325-06:002015-02-10T15:51:26.325-06:00It's refreshing that you acknowledge being the...It's refreshing that you acknowledge being the recipient of privilege due to an uneven playing field, but what are you doing to level that playing field? Saying you're not going to cheat when your team is already running away with the game, due to cheating, isn't enough. There's a difference between stopping racism and correcting racism. Your response to DanF advocates the former while conveniently neglecting to address the latter.Charnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-57316481347280276042015-02-10T15:37:52.422-06:002015-02-10T15:37:52.422-06:00"That in those acts we caused great harm to m..."That in those acts we caused great harm to many people who didn't deserve it. That there has to be a better way." <br /><br />So now we move away from the that's just the way of the world, not much we can do about it arguments to "there has to be a better way." Those acts continue to harm. How did you seek a better way, throwing your hands in the air while continuing to benefit from the status quo? Why is it the privileged always place the onus on the oppressed to find a better way?<br /><br />"In response to your other posts, when have I ever said those documented events aren't important?"<br /><br />Actually, what I accused you of is having a White-centric attitude, something you have demonstrated since your first post to this article. <br /><br />Your very language betrays you. After paying minimal lip service to Chauncey's points, you get to your real priority:<br /><br />"What does get to me though, is when people bring up an event that was similar to X atrocity, that people in another country committed that was not openly denounced at the time, like we're hypocrites for finding it distasteful now." <br /><br />In other words, that other stuff is whatever. It is what it is. "What does get to me though..." Because that's what really bothers you about all of this, Chauncey daring to make the comparison. That's the real issue. <br /><br />"Also, I note the irony of this coming from a profile named after Char Aznable..." <br /><br /><br /><br />You fail to understand irony if you think it's ironic someone with a Char Aznable handle is challenging the false narrative of privileged innocence while reminding you the continued suffering of the oppressed buys your privilege. <br /><br /><br />For the record, Char's colony drop was about forcing the privileged humans who remained, slowly destroying it and oppressing the colonies, into space, where they would lose their privileged identity and become like the rest of humanity.Charnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-39021745858883232832015-02-10T14:48:58.088-06:002015-02-10T14:48:58.088-06:00"Qualifications are important you know."..."Qualifications are important you know."<br /><br />You had said here earlier that you felt "equality should be about raising people up, not dragging everyone else down at the same time."<br /><br />Fine, and a noble sentiment. Then what you could do in this situation, if acting as an advocate for equitable outcomes for all - raising people up, as it were - is to look to hire those who you KNOW are not getting a fair shake in society and seek to help them gain those qualifications through your mentorship. <br />Don't "hire them based on their colour"; hire them based on their untapped/unrealized potential and hone them from diamonds in the rough to multi-faceted treasures. <br /><br />And, yes, qualifications are important, but no one starts off qualified; everyone begins as untapped potential waiting to be discovered. The question is are you (and those of your ilk) genuinely willing to seek such and bring that potential to the light, or is it just easier to overlook a fortune in diamonds but for all the coal you glance over.Black Romulanhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nheR783dvXAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-49132648720485716972015-02-10T14:33:15.199-06:002015-02-10T14:33:15.199-06:00"The past must be remembered and learned from..."The past must be remembered and learned from, but the new generation cannot be held responsible for what our ancestors did...<br /><br />Yes, I'm white. And yes, by extension, I'm privileged. So what do you want me to do about it? It's not my fault, should I renounce all that I have and live in a box? Yes, things probably are easier to me because I'm a white male ,but to me equality should be about raising people up, not dragging everyone else down at the same time."<br /><br />See Tim Wise's response on Guilt vs Responsibility: "Guilt is what you feel for what you have done. Responsibility is what you take because of the kind of person you are."<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhOh_EGe41YBlack Romulanhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nheR783dvXAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-62588572937631564702015-02-10T13:43:54.908-06:002015-02-10T13:43:54.908-06:00Look it's really not about you personally. It&...Look it's really not about you personally. It's about holding these people accountable for their actions in the past. Don't give them an excuse, their behavior was not "merely unpleasant" it was terrible. They dismembered, mutilated, and burned people because it was terrible.<br /><br />People are emotionally invested in their whiteness. No one is fearful of a monetary or corporal punishment for global white supremacy. you cannot place a contingency on freedom for black people or others, it shows you do not sympathize or empathize with them.<br /><br />The only responsibility anyone has is let it be talked about openly.Myshkin the Idiothttps://www.facebook.com/myshkintheidiotnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-20350055048048304222015-02-10T11:37:47.210-06:002015-02-10T11:37:47.210-06:00Yes because "hire a person of color" mea...Yes because "hire a person of color" means the equivalent of "hire an unqualified person" doesn't it?KissedByTheSunnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-75881427509833744922015-02-10T11:10:31.498-06:002015-02-10T11:10:31.498-06:00That's fine, of course, but I think it would b...That's fine, of course, but I think it would be more prudent to say "Don't refuse to hire them based on their colour". Qualifications are important you know.Nautim Portantnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-67582109405192973052015-02-10T09:33:23.283-06:002015-02-10T09:33:23.283-06:00Color blind racism is the "new improved"...Color blind racism is the "new improved" version of overt racism. Short term memory impairment coupled with historical amnesia are the basis of mass denial.joe manningnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-39706488875113989212015-02-10T09:00:07.571-06:002015-02-10T09:00:07.571-06:00What can you do? If you are in a position to hire ...What can you do? If you are in a position to hire someone for a job opening, hire a person of color. If you are on a search committee to hire someone, advocate for the person of color. If you know a person of color without a job - or who has a crappy job - try and get them hired into your company. Jobs and opportunity are "who you know" more than "what you know." Expand your inner circle to include people who don't look like you. Be proactive in this. Don't just sit there saying, "What can I do? It was in the past." It is happening now. You can do this.DanFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-73517432233939560462015-02-10T08:54:01.159-06:002015-02-10T08:54:01.159-06:00That in those acts we caused great harm to many pe...That in those acts we caused great harm to many people who didn't deserve it. That there has to be a better way.<br /><br /><br />In response to your other posts, when have I ever said those documented events aren't important? That they shouldn't be discussed? Why does me admitting I live a better life style than others mean I approve of how I got it? Giving it up won't make it better, and relishing it won't either. In all seriousness, what a I supposed to do? I cannot right the wrongs of history, all I can do is learn from them. "Never again!" we cry, and only the truly arrogant would assume they're exempt from it.<br /><br /><br />Yes, maybe I am trying to paint the white majority as sympathetic, but only because we're a part of society too. People say "First world problems", like we're not allowed to complain, that we just have to suck up any misfortune that befalls us because our lives are easier. Sure, I'm sure some people would put up with shit at work just to have a job, but that doesn't mean you, or anyone, should have to.<br /><br /><br />If anything, I believe we should stop ISIS because they remind us so much of what we used to be and, sadly, what some of us still are (You only have to look at parties like the English Defense League to see that).<br /><br /><br />Also, I note the irony of this coming from a profile named after Char Aznable, someone who lead the Neo Zeon movement who were strictly anti-earthnoid and attempted to hurl a meteor at the planet to make is uninhabitable.Nautim Portantnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-27448111789781561702015-02-10T05:51:00.161-06:002015-02-10T05:51:00.161-06:00I actually haven't read the longer piece on Is...I actually haven't read the longer piece on Isis and white America, but I did see it shared by many others, which is not typical. Most of the people sharing were people of color. <br />I shared your 25 things learned about liberal racists a few days ago. Funny thing, conservatives jump at the bit to defend them.<br /> Themes of conservatism this week, liberals are racist. White liberals hate black people, black liberals hate white people.<br /> Talking about the past is only good for one thing: Simmering in hatred. Must be why the cons love to talk about their cold war. <br />Welfare recipients are slaves. They are taken care of by white dems in exchange for votes and they reside in a mental plantation. The tax payer is also slave to the welfare recipient. Under threat of violence, cons must work to take care of the welfare recipients. All of these slaves are metaphorical though.Myshkin the Idiothttps://www.facebook.com/myshkintheidiotnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-9072013971655554492015-02-10T02:56:32.977-06:002015-02-10T02:56:32.977-06:00Yeah white people lunched black people but African...Yeah white people lunched black people but Africans also killed other Africans in Africa even before slavery! I'm being sarcastic but this line of arguing is the same as yours. ISIS burned that man to death in 2015, so please if you want to bring up history then do so on its own merits and not to distract from or distort what is happening today. <br /><br />Also absolutly 'white America' as you put it were complicit in the lynchings even though most white people were not involved. If you accept this then why do you reject the assertion that 'the Muslim world' are also complicit in the barbarity that we see in so many Islamic countries today?SOMARA556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-51522586348356082192015-02-10T01:30:00.487-06:002015-02-10T01:30:00.487-06:00thanks for sharing. is the working group public? d...thanks for sharing. is the working group public? do you have a url for it you would like to share?chauncey devegahttp://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-30560275936999931472015-02-09T23:30:26.437-06:002015-02-09T23:30:26.437-06:00Reposted this to my white privilege discussion gro...Reposted this to my white privilege discussion group.ihopeagainnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-16209237799374345312015-02-09T18:44:55.028-06:002015-02-09T18:44:55.028-06:00...and 5, and 20, and more. I'm interested in ......and 5, and 20, and more. I'm interested in seeing if Nautim actually manages to hit on all 20 points, during this conversation.Charnoreply@blogger.com