tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post1187046465867904510..comments2024-03-22T20:34:13.792-05:00Comments on Indomitable | The online home of Chauncey DeVega: A Non-Mystery and Obligatory Question: What Race is Herman Cain's "Mistress" Ginger White?Lady Zora, Chauncey DeVega, and Gordon Gartrellehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09138154899923808806noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-21214855459277302032011-12-11T19:29:55.015-06:002011-12-11T19:29:55.015-06:00I was lucky enough to receive some gentle schoolin...I was lucky enough to receive some gentle schooling on the issue in my comments above, and I now realize that my intellectual approach to the "slave name" issue, especially as an outsider myself, was at best inappropriate and at worst offensive. Please accept my apology. It's really none of my business.fred chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10812811681270634366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-72424007750071586382011-12-08T04:01:14.606-06:002011-12-08T04:01:14.606-06:00@ Nomad, cont'd
And even assuming, arguendo,...@ Nomad, cont'd <br /><br />And even assuming, arguendo, that anyone who walked away from slavery with a European name, for whatever reason, was carrying a "slave name," does that make it somehow shameful? <br /><br />After a hundred plus years, aren't they just the names of your beloved ancestors? Think of the long chain of love, association and birth that brought you here. <br /><br />You have the legal right to change your name to anything that is not inherently offensive so long as your purpose is not to defraud. I think you probably have more pride in your heritage than to do so, but that door is open to you.fred chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10812811681270634366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-7245568136403069942011-12-08T03:44:37.266-06:002011-12-08T03:44:37.266-06:00@ Nomad
Are you honestly suggesting that the ex-s...@ Nomad<br /><br />Are you honestly suggesting that the ex-slaves were forced to stick with the owner's name? <br /><br />I had a strong hunch that you were wrong, and a pleasant hour on the Google confirmed it. You are, in fact, ridiculously wrong. <br /><br />Just the fact that 80% of the Washington's currently living in America are Black proves you wrong. <br /><br />Many, if not most of the slaves knew their father's family names. They were forbidden to have one, so they kept them in oral tradition, serving, of course, under the master's last name. Upon achieving freedom, or what passed for freedom (let's just say), many of them resumed using their own names. <br /><br />Many of the ex-slaves who were not aware of their family names chose a family name. The names of the big slave owners were not popular, nor were African names. Many took a new given name and made their nickname into their family name. (Nicknames were outside of the control of the masters.) Many took the names of benefactors, such as Oliver Howard, head of the Freedman's Bureau. <br /><br />So what if many of them kept the owner's name? I would not presume to question their reasons for doing so. <br /><br />So yes, I'm still thinking that someone CHOSE the names of the people in your family.fred chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10812811681270634366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-39511642175439037992011-12-08T03:23:08.568-06:002011-12-08T03:23:08.568-06:00Testing, one, two . . .Testing, one, two . . .fred chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10812811681270634366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-66795837317375603612011-12-06T09:52:40.425-06:002011-12-06T09:52:40.425-06:00@fred
"Your ancestors fought hard to get thos...@fred<br />"Your ancestors fought hard to get those family names, lots of them died trying, and one of your ancestors CHOSE "<br /><br />not true. those names were mostly the names of the whites that owned them. just as the name changers said.<br /><br />did kunta kinte fight to be named toby?nomadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16196543910280589478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-66891191884458460492011-12-05T15:52:11.408-06:002011-12-05T15:52:11.408-06:00@ Fred,
Thanks for the comments...I do understand...@ Fred,<br /><br />Thanks for the comments...I do understand why people get worked up over the questions of racial loyalty..<br /><br />It is the real time legacy of consequence of racial relations in our nation..From racist nonsense like the 'one drop rule' to terms like field negro and uppity to elites and bourgee..For Black Americans these twisted words, terms were the lexicon , nonemclature the cultural shorthand that was our labels of intra communication many of my tribe did not have to the time to evaluate them on the merits of principal and ethics..<br /><br />Even with a BO in the white house the sting, stench and contamination of being 3/5 of a human being still lingers on the daily discourse and menus of life for us..I still have moments where the demonization of my being still hurts and leaves me an empty vessel YET I soilder on for interactions with souls like you, CD and so many others whose essence liberates and heals my wounded negro, nigger, coon, jungke bunny, uppity, colored, bi-racial, afro-american, et al soul..Plane Ideas https://www.blogger.com/profile/13838821721942426785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-65981578677979713712011-12-04T21:35:03.965-06:002011-12-04T21:35:03.965-06:00Off topic there, forgive me, off topic is where I ...Off topic there, forgive me, off topic is where I live. <br /><br />Closer to the thread, I always find the question, "is she White? Is she Black?" to be a regrettable emphasis. It raises the issue in importance, to a special place where it does not belong. It's not that big a deal, move on people! nothing to see. <br /><br />And it is cringeworthy in the extreme to think that there are so many people who are neither White enough for one group nor Black enough for another. That's a rock and a hard place right there. My heart goes out to them, including our president. It makes one an outcast, and we all need to belong somewhere. (Or more than one where, being embraced by both groups would be best, I think.)fred chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10812811681270634366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-39986488892074962142011-12-04T21:20:36.425-06:002011-12-04T21:20:36.425-06:00@ Thrasher
"my parents gave me my names.&qu...@ Thrasher <br /><br />"my parents gave me my names." Top marks, Greg, for being proud of your heritage. When we were young, you and me, there was a lot of talk of "slave names," and forgive me, but I always thought that it was unseemly. Your ancestors fought hard to get those family names, lots of them died trying, and one of your ancestors CHOSE the name Thrasher, why doesn't matter, and he or she was glad to get it. And your parents named you Greg, good for them too. Congratulations for having the decency to honor their sacrifices and their choices. <br /><br />(Nothing against the Tonishas of the world, that was an honorable choice by someone's parents too. That I get. It's the changing names mid-stream that I wonder at.)fred chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10812811681270634366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-27037136101574683032011-12-04T07:22:23.507-06:002011-12-04T07:22:23.507-06:00@ Thrasher
Well, I gave it a shot. You're in a...@ Thrasher<br />Well, I gave it a shot. You're in a river in Egypt.nomadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16196543910280589478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-72167010536452630922011-12-03T21:20:59.415-06:002011-12-03T21:20:59.415-06:00Nomad,
Again you are feeding yourself with your wo...Nomad,<br />Again you are feeding yourself with your words not mine..<br /><br />I don't acknowledge any political racial paradigms sorry nomad can't help you with your dogma or underdeveloped constructs..<br /><br />So I will reiterate for the last time' I refuse to surrender to America's racial legacy and racial discourse and classification systems'<br /><br />Enjoy the nite...lol,lol,lolPlane Ideas https://www.blogger.com/profile/13838821721942426785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-46068367638540689572011-12-03T09:30:37.429-06:002011-12-03T09:30:37.429-06:00@Thrasher
"I refuse to surrender to America&#...@Thrasher<br />"I refuse to surrender to America's racial legacy and racial discourse and classification syatems"<br /><br />Okay. Look at it this way. You refuse to surrender to it and yet you use it. It was the Americans who sought to erase the intermediate racial caste (mulattoes). They declared through their one drop rule that (legally) there was no such thing. Just as you do. No biracials. No coloreds, no mulattoes. You subscribe to the very system of racial classification that the new Aryanists created. I'm not condemning this; just stating a fact. We all subscribe to this system. Black people use a lot of things invented by de white man. This is just one of them.nomadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16196543910280589478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-53882851347012493632011-12-02T09:06:52.988-06:002011-12-02T09:06:52.988-06:00Nomad,
I still don't understand the basis of ...Nomad,<br /><br />I still don't understand the basis of your comments....<br /><br />In any event enjoy the weekendPlane Ideas https://www.blogger.com/profile/13838821721942426785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-14612799673071055982011-12-02T08:09:16.305-06:002011-12-02T08:09:16.305-06:00i already answered that one, thrasher. the point i...i already answered that one, thrasher. the point is:It's so commonplace to US, we don't appreciate how unique it is.nomadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16196543910280589478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-4575457878091486942011-12-01T20:10:50.817-06:002011-12-01T20:10:50.817-06:00Ok Greg Smith. Sounds like the name of "da m...Ok Greg Smith. Sounds like the name of "da man" if you ask me. Such an honorable European name. Fitting 4 a guy like yourself. My feelings R fine BTW, LOL, WTF.<br /><br />Peace Gregorydtwohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03324673754842158220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-55105360398738114272011-12-01T19:42:09.968-06:002011-12-01T19:42:09.968-06:00dtwo,
Duh...My parents give me my names..BTW last...dtwo,<br /><br />Duh...My parents give me my names..BTW last name is THRASHER and I give less than a fuck about it's orgin..I am the man in the suit..<br /><br />Now get over me and your hurt feelings cause I was not feeling the nonsense of your tired bi-racial woes....lol,lol,lol<br /><br />@nomad...The Americans you refer to are WHITE so what is your point???<br /><br />Help a chocolate brown sugar glazed brother out....lol,lol,lolPlane Ideas https://www.blogger.com/profile/13838821721942426785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-7876333474585005082011-12-01T18:56:38.143-06:002011-12-01T18:56:38.143-06:00@thrasher Surprised you'd have a name like Gr...@thrasher Surprised you'd have a name like Greg. The name originated in Europe (Greece, very common in England). I would think someone like yourself would reject a name like Greg due to its European origins. U know the Europeans that colonized so many countries. The Europeans that ruined Africa. I thought a guy like you would have a name like Shaka, Hanibal, Chaka but Greg. Whats ur last name Smith. WTF, WTF LOL, LOLdtwohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03324673754842158220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-19484954055461665512011-12-01T18:38:48.485-06:002011-12-01T18:38:48.485-06:00It's so commonplace to US, we don't apprec...It's so commonplace to US, we don't appreciate how unique it is.nomadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16196543910280589478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-13614079624083172832011-12-01T18:36:12.098-06:002011-12-01T18:36:12.098-06:00"It is tragic and amusing to observe this imp..."It is tragic and amusing to observe this impact of white racism and how it has excused the pun stained the world."<br />I agree, Thrasher. Except that I think it's just the opposite of the way you view it. It was the three tier system of racial classification that was the original. Black-intermediate (mulatto, colored)-white. The Americans created that radical, binary, black-white and nothing in between, one drop system.nomadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16196543910280589478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-45198360967730293872011-12-01T16:08:18.016-06:002011-12-01T16:08:18.016-06:00Bi-Racial folks in America who are binary types i....Bi-Racial folks in America who are binary types i.e white /black..<br /><br />The white aspect of the bi-racial personhood often takes on the same pathologies of white folks they range from being prejudiced to expressing a white guilt persona's<br /><br />The Black aspect of the bi-racial personhood often is an angela davis type they are blacker than the blackest negro and they often take on a militant angry nappy headed demeanor..lol,lol, lol<br /><br />It is tragic and amusing to observe this impact of white racism and how it has excused the pun stained the world..lol,lol,lolPlane Ideas https://www.blogger.com/profile/13838821721942426785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-85640564719999196742011-12-01T15:48:20.221-06:002011-12-01T15:48:20.221-06:00@dtwo
My heart is broken I am happy of course I w...@dtwo<br /><br />My heart is broken I am happy of course I will not now be hit over the head with your need to tell us you are bi-racial..WTF..<br /><br />@ nomad<br /><br />Nonsense!!!..My name is Greg and I refuse to surrender to America's racial legacy and racial discourse and classification syatems..from colored to negro to quadroon, octoroon, quinroon, nigger,afro-american, yada,yada,yada..Plane Ideas https://www.blogger.com/profile/13838821721942426785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-36261879943823204592011-12-01T15:37:55.064-06:002011-12-01T15:37:55.064-06:00@nomad re: is it impolite to ask. It depends on w...@nomad re: is it impolite to ask. It depends on who is asking and how the question is asked IMO. As a kid when I was asked it was generally done by whites and done in a rude way. Something along the lines of "what are you". I think if you ask someone what their background is and they can tell that you're genuinely interested I'd think it would be recieved well. It would be by me.dtwohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03324673754842158220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-50083176944966428062011-12-01T15:22:00.708-06:002011-12-01T15:22:00.708-06:00@chaunceydevega re: how did you pick her out.
I&#...@chaunceydevega re: how did you pick her out.<br /><br />I'll be candid i wasn't sure initially. But looking at her facial features and hearing her talk I determined that she was Black (bi racial, mixed etc). There is not one thing that I could point to and say this is how i knew.dtwohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03324673754842158220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-31101897385402753432011-12-01T15:13:16.039-06:002011-12-01T15:13:16.039-06:00@Thrasher
Save your recomendations. Based on my...@Thrasher <br /><br />Save your recomendations. Based on my interaction with you on this site I would not take a recomendation from you.dtwohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03324673754842158220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-67799780341562160542011-12-01T14:16:56.781-06:002011-12-01T14:16:56.781-06:00Racial liminality is a reality. I don't think ...Racial liminality is a reality. I don't think it can be ignored. Therefore it must be given a name, be it biracial, mixed, colored or whathaveyou. Especially when it's so light it's indistinguishable from white. Black in name only. Black by choice. A phrase I first heard in reference to black artist Romare Bearden. I think, also, of my neighbor across the street. If I didn't know her and passed her on the street I would assume, from outward appearance that she's white. Biologically she might be. But culturally she's black. I mean even if she is "white", she's living the life of a sister (black spouse, red kids). I don't know. dtwo, is it impolite to ask?nomadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16196543910280589478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-61200612352997294052011-12-01T14:08:32.854-06:002011-12-01T14:08:32.854-06:00@dtwo. meaning how did you pick her out of the amb...@dtwo. meaning how did you pick her out of the ambiguous negro line up?chaunceydevegahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09652406326490873337noreply@blogger.com