tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post1155203827851094068..comments2024-03-17T20:04:18.872-05:00Comments on Indomitable | The online home of Chauncey DeVega: $250 Belts? $2,500 Handbags? Racial Profiling and "Shopping While Black" are Wrong. But, the Relationship Between Conspicuous Consumption and Low Levels of Black Wealth is a Far More Important IssueLady Zora, Chauncey DeVega, and Gordon Gartrellehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09138154899923808806noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-7012863785955255402013-11-05T12:06:02.182-06:002013-11-05T12:06:02.182-06:00This thread is kind of old, but I just read this t...This thread is kind of old, but I just read this today, linked to from another blog: http://tressiemc.com/2013/10/29/the-logic-of-stupid-poor-people/ it is another take on this issue that makes some sense. It describes one reason people might overspend on a few things.<br /><br />I had also not thought about this for a long time until I read the above-linked piece, but I had a friend who had a placard or small poster in his work cubicle that said, "The key to making a million dollars is looking like you already made it." I don't know who originated it, but I used to kind of think that is was some empty, Dale-Carnegie-inspired bullshit, but it does make a certain amount of sense in the context of our cultural and economic system, even if it might be somewhat simplistic.OldPolarBearnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-1134326085508588702013-11-04T14:59:43.856-06:002013-11-04T14:59:43.856-06:00Here are a couple of rules I tell my mentees:
1. e...Here are a couple of rules I tell my mentees:<br />1. each payday, pay your future a minimum of 10% in an account you do not touch unless the result of taking it out nets you more than 10% profit.<br />2. buy nothing that is not on sale and is not a fad iten - buy classic items that will not go out of style.<br />3. when shopping for food, make a list and stick with it.<br />4. do not buy on impulse or whim.<br />5. do not gamble with money you cannot afford to loose or don't gamble at all.<br />6. acquire a hobby that costs little or nothing and can potentially earn you extra income (I review books I read and get a modest return).<br />7. out of 30 days, only eat out once, which implies, learn how to cook (which got me more play from the sisters than taking them out to a restaurant AND didn't cost me as much).Houston Murphynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-51192010463248281432013-11-04T14:21:23.150-06:002013-11-04T14:21:23.150-06:00Mentoring will only go so far; I have told my men...Mentoring will only go so far; I have told my mentees to take ownership of their lives and futures in as many ways as possible. Visualize who and what you will be every day and make your dream come true! Visualize beyond the barrier and sooner or later, it will be behind you. Out of a dozen one-on-one mentees, I'm batting at about 50% on my vision of their success, but, 1) what would have happened if I hadn't done anything at all? And 2) who am I to judge their success?Houston Murphynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-61960238419463414892013-11-02T21:42:25.168-05:002013-11-02T21:42:25.168-05:00That is the sad part huh? A big screen TV or car i...That is the sad part huh? A big screen TV or car is not an investment it depreciates immediately and generally cannot help to create future wealth. Unfortunately, lots of folks don't understand that fact.chauncey devegahttp://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-2043316994243443132013-11-02T21:21:08.847-05:002013-11-02T21:21:08.847-05:00For some people, there may be no difference betwee...For some people, there may be no difference between conspicuous consumption and investment: http://tressiemc.com/2013/10/29/the-logic-of-stupid-poor-people/Cavoyonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-73930624101887953792013-11-02T13:41:55.233-05:002013-11-02T13:41:55.233-05:00Ralph Cintron talked a little about conspicuous co...Ralph Cintron talked a little about conspicuous consumption in context of a Latino neighborhood in his ethnography Angel's Town, which might partly explain the observation in the Wharton link that poor people in poor communities spend more on visible goods than those in wealthy ones. Cintron didn't seem to think it was entirely about keeping up with the Joneses like the Wharton link assumes. Wealthy communities have the money to maintain well-kept roads, building exteriors, gardens, sidewalks, parks and public buildings and aren't willfully neglected by the city in any number of ways. For a poor person living in a wealthy neighborhood, there's much less of a visual diet of decay (or what one of Cintron's subjects self-consciously called the "raggedy"-ness of his neighborhood) to take a psychological toll, which is then temporarily remedied by consumption of Veblen goods, which are something to take pride in. Not an excuse, but an explanation Cintron provided.Aiguillenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-90090555636013796222013-11-02T12:50:26.029-05:002013-11-02T12:50:26.029-05:00Pretty good article. Not much I can add here. It i...Pretty good article. Not much I can add here. It is puzzling that the <br />only thing that previously gave leverage when fighting against <br />injustice, is thrown away so readily nowadays. Consumerism and religion,<br /> two things that offer the least for blacks, are what seems to be the <br />things that are embraced wholeheartedly. Is there a correlation? <br />Probably could be added to the concept of prestige within the community.<br /> There is a vested interest in showing how "blessed" one is. I mean, as <br />long as we are looking at possible causes...SabrinaBeenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-80047936706639042402013-11-01T11:05:00.744-05:002013-11-01T11:05:00.744-05:00Thanks. I think it was him, and on 60 Minutes. I j...Thanks. I think it was him, and on 60 Minutes. I just tried to do some searching and am not having much luck.OldPolarBearnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-83889314853498638212013-11-01T04:37:17.702-05:002013-11-01T04:37:17.702-05:00Your right, we are very entrepreneurial. Imagine t...Your right, we are very entrepreneurial. Imagine the star power used if the likes of Jay-Z had an exclusive deal w/a black owned enterprise rather than Barney's. Making a local or regional retailer bigger. Macy's, etc. dont need that type of push. That's one of the small steps we could do to highlight & expand a small business into a major player amongst ouselves. Sankofa. I know FUBU played out but I was proud back then to explain to nonblack folk that it was For Us By Us when asked. The resources are there. We are/our dollars are an endothermic reaction ready to blow.Learning is Eternalnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-40653556629383593762013-11-01T01:19:07.602-05:002013-11-01T01:19:07.602-05:00What you offered here is some real talk.
I love t...What you offered here is some real talk.<br /><br />I love this:<br /><br />"There is an expression, "if it's on your ass, it's not an asset" that is often used by bloggers and speakers talking about thrift, saving, etc"<br /><br /><br /><br />I will look up Johnson's talk.chauncey devegahttp://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-24258256305845552682013-11-01T01:17:46.439-05:002013-11-01T01:17:46.439-05:00I bet you learned alot. Your pops was a great man ...I bet you learned alot. Your pops was a great man to let you have that lesson. Do share your wisdom.chauncey devegahttp://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-56557703267188224252013-11-01T01:17:15.847-05:002013-11-01T01:17:15.847-05:00In capitalist systems observations about poverty a...In capitalist systems observations about poverty are also claims on morality. Not surprisingly, some of the most immoral people are the rich. Research in psychology about theft, cheating, and what we see about their criminal behavior supports such a claim.<br /><br /><br />Maybe the problem is that poor people are too damn moral?chauncey devegahttp://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-90780254202057997552013-11-01T01:16:13.799-05:002013-11-01T01:16:13.799-05:00Thank you for the kind comments. You wrote this:
...Thank you for the kind comments. You wrote this:<br /><br />"Lastly, if the people around you think that the most important thing is a $2,500 bag or $400 belt, it's difficult to reach beyond that (unless you meet a really great mentor.) That money could have gone toward a round-trip plane ticket or a class at a junior college."<br /><br /><br /><br />Where do folks find these mentors? And if you live in a small social network with folks who have similar habits what shall you do?chauncey devegahttp://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-22556462954581963402013-11-01T01:15:20.557-05:002013-11-01T01:15:20.557-05:00Ride, ride, ride. Good for your health. Dreams are...Ride, ride, ride. Good for your health. Dreams are great too. I have nothing against indulgences. We have to live. But, when you have no investments, money in the bank, rainy day money, etc. and you want to profile and stunt via clothes and the like, there has to be an intervention.chauncey devegahttp://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-36007342002744212812013-11-01T01:14:24.656-05:002013-11-01T01:14:24.656-05:00What do you think is stopping black folks from ope...What do you think is stopping black folks from opening out own businesses more? We certainly are very entrepreneurial. Is it internalized racism, under-capitalization, lack of support from the community, being preyed upon by the knuckleheads if we choose to build in said working class or poor community?chauncey devegahttp://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-23368095103504711632013-11-01T01:13:14.148-05:002013-11-01T01:13:14.148-05:00Check cashing and rent to own are predators on the...Check cashing and rent to own are predators on the poor. But, in a consumerist economy with flat wages, I can understand the temptation. It is hard out there brother.chauncey devegahttp://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-37011355960176840052013-11-01T01:11:21.269-05:002013-11-01T01:11:21.269-05:00No Chauncey. She has convinced herself that life ...No Chauncey. She has convinced herself that life is a big screen television with a mountain of DVD's.skilletblondenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-42179382380411832392013-10-31T15:29:02.446-05:002013-10-31T15:29:02.446-05:00My first big splurge was the purchase of my first ...My first big splurge was the purchase of my first piece of<br />real estate when I was 16. I come from<br />landed Black folk and I wanted to be one too. <br />My dad gave me permission; he and I walked through it together. He asked me what I planned on doing with it<br />and I told him I wanted to rent it out. I<br />had some experience with building maintenance at that age but I found out I<br />didn’t know as much as I thought. It was a foreclosure and the price was within<br />my means - $1,863.64 (bought outright from savings from newspaper route, grass<br />cutting, handy man stuff, etc.). This<br />was a long time ago, by the way. That<br />purchase was a nightmare and a real awakening. I won the auction and proceeded to make the<br />necessary repairs – front and rear door locks, a few window panes replaced,<br />broom sweep, mop, new kitchen floor tiles installed, etc. Once I thought I was finished, I posted a for<br />rent sign on the front of the row house and posted my ad in the newspaper and<br />waited for responses. The first response<br />was vandalism. The second response was<br />from neighbors about the debris someone dumped in the back yard. The third was<br />a City inspector and the forth was from the ground rent owner. I sold it for a modest ($250.00) profit after<br />expenses in under a year. I have never<br />been without owning real estate but I have been without a car.Houston Murphynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-89687381206541597752013-10-31T14:52:37.970-05:002013-10-31T14:52:37.970-05:00Can you share these 5 to 10 money related things? ...Can you share these 5 to 10 money related things? If you don't want to elaborate that's fine. Any knowledge about finance is helpful.Learning is Eternalnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-4028491446464921992013-10-31T14:52:01.595-05:002013-10-31T14:52:01.595-05:00I can definitely see what you are getting at here,...I can definitely see what you are getting at here, especially your last graf. In general, it seems sometimes like we are consuming ourselves, and the planet, to death. It does seem especially unfortunate that people who have so little will spend on extravagances, no matter their race. It is an observed phenomenon that poor people, for example, are much more likely to insist on buying brand-name products rather than the exact, same, generic or store-brand equivalent.<br /><br />There is an expression, "if it's on your ass, it's not an asset" that is<br /> often used by bloggers and speakers talking about thrift, saving, etc. I<br /> first heard it several years ago in a 60 Minutes segment on Robert L. <br />Johnson, the founder of Black Entertainment Television. He is described <br />in Wikipedia as "the first black billionaire." I don't know if he <br />originated the saying, but he apparently had made it something of a <br />cause to try and encourage thrift and entrepreneurism in black youth and<br /> said it often in his speeches. Of course, commercial television's bread<br /> and butter is making people want expensive things they don't need, so <br />maybe he was being a little hypocritical. The whole purpose of most media, both advertising and program content, is to sell stuff.<br /><br />Also, our economic system is not set up to encourage savings and investment, but rather consumption. Savings accounts pay less interest than the rate of inflation, so spending money in hand may actually make more sense than trying to save it. If one is barely getting by and has only a tiny bit of money left over to save, the amount of time it will take to save a significant amount is so daunting that it is more tempting to spend it. Still, I generally agree that a $250 belt or $2500 handbag are probably not the best choices, unless you are really rich.OldPolarBearnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-36308793558453681482013-10-31T14:22:24.754-05:002013-10-31T14:22:24.754-05:00Most everybody has indulgences they fulfill. Wheth...Most everybody has indulgences they fulfill. Whether they want to drink every night or weekends, smoke cigarettes every day, maybe even some illegal drugs. Others maybe just like eating out at restaurants and going to movie theaters or concerts and other forms of entertainment. These usually fall under regular types of expenditures. People will seek to use their money to fulfill those indulgences however they can sometimes to the detriment of their finances.<br /><br />Wealthier people can afford most of these more daily indulgences without losing their saving ability. So to encourage that saver mentality among lower socioeconomic folks, we have to forego our self indulging desires. It can be tough, but I think often we do succeed at curbing our desires to match our personal budget.<br /><br />I know that some people do make piss poor financial decisions in the face of making better saving decisions for themselves or their children. no doubt about it if your child is struggling in school and you decide to spend more money on clothes instead private tutoring lessons or some other assistance you're priority is not providing an education but keeping their ego secure in this moment.<br /><br />I wish I had a little better capability to explain what my problem with the Cosby thing was... For me I think it comes down to scapegoating a group of people when the problem of consumption culture is much larger than lower socioeconomic people and the problem of the wealth gap is much largerBryan Orteznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-69018542455543543522013-10-31T14:01:26.517-05:002013-10-31T14:01:26.517-05:00You know my position on the 'Cos--he was telli...You know my position on the 'Cos--he was telling the truth; folks got made because they couldn't handle it.<br /><br /><br />I am not much above being poor myself and grew up working class. I wish my parents made better decisions, and then passed those good habits and decisions down to me. <br /><br /><br />Lots of knowing what to do about money comes from having money, being in those circles, and/or taking the time to educate yourself about finance and money. I have a list of about 5 to 10 money related things I wish I could have done better. We don't have time machines; thus best to make changes now and for the future.chauncey devegahttp://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-31056547546190685352013-10-31T13:57:38.803-05:002013-10-31T13:57:38.803-05:00I've been a pretty big critic of consumption f...I've been a pretty big critic of consumption for most of my adult life, which is part of the reason most of my extra spending has gone to tattoos instead of other things.<br /><br />You are right that getting some fancy jacket that has been endorsed by a celebrity is generally just not worth it, at least I would agree with that, but I think it is just part of being an American that we make these decisions to purchase such products for ourselves for style and fashion.<br /><br />I think it gives people confidence. Trayon or Kayla may have spent a lot of time saving up for these special items. Trayon a young college student could be trying to impress some people, maybe a romantic interest. It's something we all do a little of from time to time, some more than others.<br /><br />I have a family member whose spending habits have always given me pause. When he was 18 he took out a credit card and immediately ran up more debt than he could afford. I think he still spends more than he should to this day. <br /><br />I am askance with things like this, and to no criticism of you because I don't think you are doing this, because often people will criticize lower income people for their financial indiscretions when I think those indiscretions are largely imagined. Recently I had some words with a friend when he posted some Bill Cosby quote about lower income black people complaining about racism and stuff while they name their kids Shaniqua and buy $200 shoes instead of Hooked on Phonics.<br /><br />I get what you are saying about the wealth gap and conspicuous consumption.Bryan Orteznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-28919370175655287592013-10-31T13:51:17.643-05:002013-10-31T13:51:17.643-05:00Being foolish with money is probably as much a fun...Being foolish with money is probably as much a function of youth as it is of other circumstances. I blush to consider how long in the tooth I was before I finally got serious about my finances--especially given how much my Depression-children parents did without, to launch me into gainful adulthood.<br /><br /><br />Being foolish with money is also rooted in poverty itself. In the 18th Century Adam Smith wrote of the British poor and their "love of present ease". Learning the discipline of deferred gratification is hard, and many never do.<br /><br /><br />I liked a story I read one time, about a man who bought a Jaguar. After owning it for awhile he finally concluded that all the heads turning were former Jag owners having a good laugh at him.The Sanity Inspectorhttp://atlantarofters.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-57113078446695664.post-34547034811794752412013-10-31T13:36:01.627-05:002013-10-31T13:36:01.627-05:00No BO, I didn't say any such mushmouthed thing...No BO, I didn't say any such mushmouthed thing. Rather, I said quite plainly that in high-end retail stores like Barney's, a disproportionate percentage of the fraud and shoplifting is perpetrated by young trifling trash. The loss prevention being executed at that store simply reflects the facts on the ground at that store, densepack denials and reality evasions by the pseudo-intelligentsia notwithstanding.unshellackednoreply@blogger.com